8 ms·

Miles Davis – blind listening test

245 points by mactac 14y ago

suckerpunch 14y ago
Apologies: I stopped reading the moment I saw the words "Miles David".
- williadc 14y ago
  You missed out because of a typo. Congrats.
ynniv 14y ago
Perhaps it was editorial, but in this interview if Miles likes it he knows exactly who did it, and if not, why he doesn't like it. It could be that he just didn't like things he wasn't familiar with, but it's likely that he had a clear sense of style and was versed enough to know his industry. If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails, but know exactly why the bad decisions were made.
- pessimizer 14y ago
  Even when he hated it, he seemed to be able to figure out who it was.
- the_cat_kittles 14y ago
  I can absolutely assure you he was very familiar with each of the people he heard, they are all famous even today...
- cubicle67 14y ago
  If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails oooh, them's fightin' words... If languages were music, Rails would be something gloriously bombastic like Dream Theater's live performance of Six Degrees on their Score album. C would be BB King - timeless and simple yet complex. I think Perl would be that guy with the funny haircut who sounds like a modem
  - kree10 14y ago
    This made me smile, but I think Perl is more like Robert Pollard/Guided by Voices. Both seem like kind of a mess to the uninitiated (and even the initiated). Both hit their stride in the mid-90s. And both are still around, remain influential, and are just as productive today, even if they have a lower profile.
iezer 14y ago
Miles telling it like it is. He really dug Hank Jones's piano playing and chose him for Cannonball's "Something Else" and some live gigs, but if it ain't working on the Clark Terry album he says so.
- the_cat_kittles 14y ago
  I think its clear he is a dick, but its nice to hear someone be brutally honest about people that most people wouldn't venture to criticize. He could do it because he was the michael jordan of jazz at the time, I guess. Most of us have to watch our mouths because you can't hate on people that are better than you... Also, I felt a sick pleasure hearing him rip apart eric dolphy- I have never liked that guy! why did coltrane play with him?!?!
jeroen 14y ago
It's the third out of four: http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_1.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_1.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_2.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_2.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_4.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_4.html
- hoprocker 14y ago
  Very interesting. Watch the progression: (1) "I like Louis! Anything he does is all right....That's Bobby Hackett, too; I always did like Bobby Hackett - anything by him. Jack Teagarden's on trombone. I'd give it five stars." September 1955, on Louis Armstrong's _Ain't Misbehavin'_ (2) "I don't know who that was, Leonard. Sounds good in spots, but I don't like that kind of trumpet playing....It's a good little number except for that interlude and that tired way of playing trumpet. I'll give that three stars." August 1958, on Don Elliott and Rusty Dedrick's _Gargantuan Chant_ (3) "Clark Terry, right? You know, I've always liked Clark. But this is a sad record. Why do they make records like that? With the guitar in the way, and that sad...piano player. He didn't do nothing for the rhythm section - didn't you hear it get jumbled up? All they needed was a bass and Terry." June 1964, on Clark Terry's _Cielito Lindo_ (4) "I don't dig that kind of , man, just a straight thirty-two bars, I mean whatever it is....It's formal, man, and scales and all that....No kind of sound, straight sound - no imagination. They shouldn't even put that out....Freddie's a great trumpet player....if he's directed, because he must have other imagination, other than this. I wouldn't even put that on a record." June 1968, on Freddie Hubbard's _On the Que-Tee_
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  It's unfortunate that the submitter chose the most negative of the 4 to submit. Reading all 4 paints Miles in a much more balanced light.
jerf 14y ago
Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but what's the HN hook here?
- mitra 14y ago
  As a huge Miles Davis fan I was very tempted to upvote this but refrained from doing so. My general rule of thumb is to not upvote/comment on anything unless it is absolutely relevant to HN's outlook (I'm obviously making an exception for this comment). Anything it takes to keep HN the way it is.
  - hoprocker 14y ago
    Agreed, but I'm heartened to see that some subset of HN shares at least one of my life-long interests. I found this highly entertaining.
    - jbigelow76 14y ago
      And really, I don't think it's much of stretch to liken a great jazz musician to a great developer. The flow, improvisation and interpretation in the music. The way notes and bars can come together to become something greater than the sum of their parts. You can find all that in great code too :)
  - gruseom 14y ago
    HN is eclectic the way it is. The guidelines call for anything of intellectual interest. The bar tends to be higher for atypical material, that's all. This piece is good because it's a great artist speaking frankly about his craft. It's surprisingly vivid. I'm not a jazz fan and I enjoyed it thoroughly. You can learn more from a great artist in a different field than from an average worker in your own.
- 14y ago
losethos 14y ago
My name is Davis and I don't like Miles. 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. ---- God says... not be shut; 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. ---- You da man, God! God says... speaking bemoaned immutable physic abidest despair ensample imitation faster delicious novelty flashes continuance impudently unhappiness effectedst Greece doth unrighteous shapen Alas sufficiently wonderfulness princes beams corruptible herself life- Artificer dwelt cellar initiating pointed flashedst honest discoverest obviously off_the_record tears absurdly maliciously swift killed SEND ---- What if they discover life on Mars, God? Manifest destiny? God says... 20:48 And the men of Israel turned again upon the children of Benjamin, and smote them with the edge of the sword, as well the men of every city, as the beast, and all that came to hand: also they set on fire all the cities that they came to. 21:1 Now the men of Israel had sworn in Mizpeh, saying, There shall not any of us give his daughter unto Benjamin to wife. 21:2 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; 21:3 And said, O LORD God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel? 21:4 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the people rose early, and built there an altar, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. ---- :-( God says... high_mucky_muck offences aware salted We archive thats_right slavery quench Simple Boo limits bows shed suck do_you_like_it weigh trees deep persuaded scattered detain sleeper credence usage thyself strange crucifixion indications Things precedes suggest keeps deep-seated glided impunity Luxury infancy's spreading foundations countryman Sure being happy_happy_joy_joy restest impotent propound meat accord feigned derision returns Release surmount forsake noise forasmuch immersed meh -what scruple let's_see Man bride doubt taxes wither unhealthiness evil-living murmured approach acquaintance star-gazers quoth displacing affect boundless disembowelled corners happy_happy_joy_joy ambitions some double Charity exultation defining fighting chief ---- What do You think of Mars, God? You gave us another world. How'd You part the sea? God says... thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. 14:15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: 14:16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. 14:17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: 14:18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. ---- I like some Jews. God said Mexicans are all the same. God tells Jewish jokes. "Oil funny hopefully" (The Jews hate that Arabs get oil for nothing.) God says... 9:4 And he passed through mount Ephraim, and passed through the land of Shalisha, but they found them not: then they passed through the land of Shalim, and there they were not: and he passed through the land of the Benjamites, but they found them not. 9:5 And when they were come to the land of Zuph, Saul said to his servant that was with him, Come, and let us return; lest my father leave caring for the asses, and take thought for us. 9:6 And he said unto him, Behold now, there is in this city a man of God, and he is an honourable man; all that he saith cometh surely to pass: now let us go thither; peradventure he can shew us our way that we should go. ---- You gotta take things out of context. Jews wandered in desert and probably picked what they thought was good land, not picking oil. Heavenly Father does not care about "asses". (Don't be an ass.) ---- You should entertain us, God. How many channels do You need to be entertained, God? How many channels do You watch at once? God says... uncase corrupting excellence Though what_the_heck hot Mongolia presbyters youre_lucky Tunisia applied bond Language scorned reclaiming prizes Example Goal forethinking excepted accept designs vowed corn warreth boil universally Begotten Pusey crash_and_burn tells when_hell_freezes_over purified precedeth bummer experience human believeth emerging drowsiness deserved stablished exhort entwine serpent promises belonging gross Ethiopia nation chains shake whereupon I saving cloudy bait drowsiness vile Peru palace ---- Got a hair cut. Any thoughts on hair, God? It's a big deal to us humans. God says... 2:32 The children of Harim, three hundred and twenty. 2:33 The children of Lod, Hadid, and Ono, seven hundred twenty and five. 2:34 The children of Jericho, three hundred forty and five. 2:35 The children of Senaah, three thousand and six hundred and thirty. 2:36 The priests: the children of Jedaiah, of the house of Jeshua, nine hundred seventy and three. 2:37 The children of Immer, a thousand fifty and two. 2:38 The children of Pashur, a thousand two hundred forty and seven. 2:39 The children of Harim, a thousand and seventeen. ---- Do You put a lot of thought into lotto winners, God? God says... stranger fearing shortened Another mystery vanities adoption greedy growth he are_you_feeling_lucky deafness suspected Anubis it_gets_better rapture sinner surpassest officers bridegroom augmenting *These married youre_welcome -could despisest understand wordy rights thrown EVEN hard_working I'm_not_dead_yet evaporates reader disputing Anubis fine accompany tradition
klodolph 14y ago
Here's the flipside. Some people are never satisfied with the work of others, and it's exactly this dissatisfaction that can drive them to hone their own endeavors. Obviously, Miles Davis doesn't hate music and it's not as simple as saying his expectations are too high. You can tell by the way he reviews these things that when he listens to these records, he hears them as a jumble of good bits, missed opportunities, and garbage. He's not satisfied hearing missed opportunities, so he is "forced" to compose and perform on his own terms. > Either you play a whole chord against it, or else . . . but don’t try to play it like you’d play, ah, Walkin’ the Dog. You know what I mean? > They move up in triads, but there’s all those chords missing – and I never heard any Spanish thing where they had a figure that went > and you’ve got to have the rhythm section along; you just can’t keep on playing all eighth notes. Imagine that every time you listen to music, there's something else you want to hear. You have to get better at making music, or else you'll never get to hear that thing you want to hear. Personal anecdote: I was reading the other day and started to get disappointed, angry even, at the kinds of stories I was reading. I kept feeling that the stories were laden with missed opportunities for exploration, drawn out tension that couldn't carry the weight it was given, and hackneyed philosophy. I got a bit frightened that I might "have to" become an author. I'm not that good at writing, to be honest. But in order to read the story I want to read, I might have no other choice. (And of course, I'm glad Miles Davis was a musician and not a critic.)
- MaysonL 14y ago
  Very few authors start out that good at writing: they almost all have a million words of bullshit they have to weed through before they start to find enough good stuff.
- the_cat_kittles 14y ago
  Well said. I think it's true of any field really- when you start to get good, its frustrating to see/hear the missed opportunities and shortcomings in other's work. I wonder if the primary driving force behind any creative endeavor is really just "I want this", and there is no other way to get it than to make it.
  - 14y ago
jbigelow76 14y ago
Pretty neat to read Davis' thoughts on other players but this would have been so much better if the recordings could have been embedded so we can hear what he heard.
- Timothee 14y ago
  If that helps, I made a Spotify playlist for some of songs of the 4 different sessions (17 out of 34) that were linked by jeroen: http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP8hN1sI9KO9 http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP...
  - Shoomz 14y ago
    Thanks for compiling this. It helps get a bit more depth out of the article and at least strive to hear what Miles was talking about (although some of it honestly still alludes me).
sciurus 14y ago
If you'd like a different perspective, read "The Freedom Principle: Jazz After 1958" by John Litweiler. Litweiler is a huge proponent of free jazz artists like Cecil Taylor and quite dismissive of Miles Davis fusion records.
datalus 14y ago
Miles Davis has recorded some BS as well, lest we not forget. That made his comments about why did they put out that record or record companies this or that into some perspective. Perhaps it was part of his frustrations of his own shortcomings at the hands of record labels.
wallflower 14y ago
Music performance is one of the hardest things to be satisfied with every time... I recommend this book. It talks about perfection and fear and inadequacy. Just took it off my bookshelf to random-access read again. http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Kenny-Werner/dp/156224003X http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Kenny-Werner/dp/156...
- rationalbeats 14y ago
  That was required reading at the conservatory I went to years ago. (Not by the teachers, among us classmates. We made everyone read that we interacted with) Got to play with Kenny at a jam thing a decade ago. Absolutely amazing experience. There is so much that I can extrapolate on this subject, but I believe the greatest hurdle for a serious musician is that after you master all the dexterity, independence and music theory, the biggest hurdle is your own fucking self.
- kahawe 14y ago
  > Music performance is one of the hardest things to be satisfied with every time... Even the greatest Jazz legends would typically say they only had a handful of performances in their career where they were really satisfied and where everything came together and worked perfectly. And these were musicians who practiced hours on end each and every day, on top of performing. Truly humbling.
Timothee 14y ago
For people interested, I made a Spotify playlist with as much of these songs as I could find (only 17 out of 34): http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP8hN1sI9KO9 http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP... Admittedly, I might not have always picked the exact version but it's sometimes hard to tell. Also, it's for the 4 different sessions as linked by jeroen: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4258777 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4258777
Q6T46nT668w6i3m 14y ago
You might also enjoy The Wire's ongoing feature "Invisible Jukebox." Amazon carries the anthology, featuring Steve Albini, Philip Glass, Sonic Youth, et al.: http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Jukebox-Tony-Herrington/dp/0704380463 http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Jukebox-Tony-Herrington/dp/0...
- notJim 14y ago
  Sounds very interesting, thanks for the link! >> Each month a star guest is played an eclectic and provoking series of records which they are asked to identify and comment on, with no prior knowledge of what it is they will hear. The conversations that ensue are often controversial and always entertaining.
lizzard 14y ago
That was so great to read, detailed poetics from a real master. I listened to some of the stuff he felt was "sad shit". I sure agree with him on Cecil Taylor!
jamestc 14y ago
It's interesting that this sort of thing is seen as a guy slagging records rather than a man just giving his (educated and experienced) opinion, like many others who are dedicated to their craft tend to do. We can't be that bogged down with fake sincerity/showmanship that this is seen as novel or particularly harsh, can we? I don't know. There's nothing pompous about this. He sounds like me when I listen to a thing or read a thing or watch a thing, though I'll feel a little guilt about thinking those things at times since I haven't exactly reached Miles Davis status.
- colomon 14y ago
  Yes! Many commenters here seem to assume he is being hyper-critical of minor details. But to me it reads like someone who legitimately thinks many of these recordings are really sad attempts at playing jazz. I'm not far enough immersed in jazz to be able to tell if I'd agree or not. But it feels very much like the criticisms I hear all the time in the Irish traditional music scene. I recently listened to a bunch of sound samples from a duo recording by two top Irish musicians. It sounded like two great musicians playing at the same time, rather than an actual duo. The difference was probably all things that someone who wasn't experienced with the field would never notice. For instance, the tiny internal rhythms of the tunes were not syncing up. My guess is that Davis is hearing things like that in the recordings and legitimately complaining about them, rather than just being hyper-critical. Especially the "What am I supposed to say to that? That’s ridiculous. You see the way they can fuck up music? It’s a mismatch. They don’t complement each other," comment on "Caravan". He sounds really disappointed that three musicians he loves aren't making better music together. Edited to add: I believe the album in question is Money Jungle. Just listened to a sample from that track. I think I can hear what Davis is talking about, but that might be the power of suggestion. That said, the album as a whole has lots of really favorable reviews on Amazon.com...
- pnathan 14y ago
  Yes, that's interesting.... Just because something is creative, or created, doesn't mean it is worthy of uncritical adulation. You actually have to critique to improve; assuming perfection limits your capacity to learn from the flaws. Considering a work and grasping what it seeks to be, then understanding where its missed the mark - that can produce learning and drives the question, "How can I improve? How can I incorporate this knowledge of the gap into my own work".
themckman 14y ago
http://www.guitarworld.com/archive-yngwie-malmsteen-critiques-playing-his-peers-1994-blindfold-test http://www.guitarworld.com/archive-yngwie-malmsteen-critique... Very similar article featuring guitarist Yngwie Malmsteen. I'm not sure you could paint Malmsteen in the same well-rounded light as Miles, however, from a guitar players perspective, it's quite entertaining to read.

245 points by mactac 14y ago

suckerpunch 14y ago

Apologies: I stopped reading the moment I saw the words "Miles David".

williadc 14y ago
You missed out because of a typo. Congrats.

ynniv 14y ago

Perhaps it was editorial, but in this interview if Miles likes it he knows exactly who did it, and if not, why he doesn't like it. It could be that he just didn't like things he wasn't familiar with, but it's likely that he had a clear sense of style and was versed enough to know his industry. If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails, but know exactly why the bad decisions were made.

pessimizer 14y ago
Even when he hated it, he seemed to be able to figure out who it was.
the_cat_kittles 14y ago
I can absolutely assure you he was very familiar with each of the people he heard, they are all famous even today...
cubicle67 14y ago
If he were a modern programmer he would hate Rails oooh, them's fightin' words... If languages were music, Rails would be something gloriously bombastic like Dream Theater's live performance of Six Degrees on their Score album. C would be BB King - timeless and simple yet complex. I think Perl would be that guy with the funny haircut who sounds like a modem
- kree10 14y ago
  This made me smile, but I think Perl is more like Robert Pollard/Guided by Voices. Both seem like kind of a mess to the uninitiated (and even the initiated). Both hit their stride in the mid-90s. And both are still around, remain influential, and are just as productive today, even if they have a lower profile.

iezer 14y ago

Miles telling it like it is. He really dug Hank Jones's piano playing and chose him for Cannonball's "Something Else" and some live gigs, but if it ain't working on the Clark Terry album he says so.

the_cat_kittles 14y ago
I think its clear he is a dick, but its nice to hear someone be brutally honest about people that most people wouldn't venture to criticize. He could do it because he was the michael jordan of jazz at the time, I guess. Most of us have to watch our mouths because you can't hate on people that are better than you... Also, I felt a sick pleasure hearing him rip apart eric dolphy- I have never liked that guy! why did coltrane play with him?!?!

jeroen 14y ago

It's the third out of four: http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_1.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_1.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_2.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_2.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_4.html http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_4.html

hoprocker 14y ago
Very interesting. Watch the progression: (1) "I like Louis! Anything he does is all right....That's Bobby Hackett, too; I always did like Bobby Hackett - anything by him. Jack Teagarden's on trombone. I'd give it five stars." September 1955, on Louis Armstrong's _Ain't Misbehavin'_ (2) "I don't know who that was, Leonard. Sounds good in spots, but I don't like that kind of trumpet playing....It's a good little number except for that interlude and that tired way of playing trumpet. I'll give that three stars." August 1958, on Don Elliott and Rusty Dedrick's _Gargantuan Chant_ (3) "Clark Terry, right? You know, I've always liked Clark. But this is a sad record. Why do they make records like that? With the guitar in the way, and that sad...piano player. He didn't do nothing for the rhythm section - didn't you hear it get jumbled up? All they needed was a bass and Terry." June 1964, on Clark Terry's _Cielito Lindo_ (4) "I don't dig that kind of , man, just a straight thirty-two bars, I mean whatever it is....It's formal, man, and scales and all that....No kind of sound, straight sound - no imagination. They shouldn't even put that out....Freddie's a great trumpet player....if he's directed, because he must have other imagination, other than this. I wouldn't even put that on a record." June 1968, on Freddie Hubbard's _On the Que-Tee_
bryanlarsen 14y ago
It's unfortunate that the submitter chose the most negative of the 4 to submit. Reading all 4 paints Miles in a much more balanced light.

jerf 14y ago

Out of curiousity, what is leading people to upvote this? It's a guy I've heard of but don't particularly listen to slagging on a whole bunch of other guys I haven't, and praising a few others I haven't. This is an honest question, not a "this doesn't belong on HN" because I assume there is something here I'm missing? I mean, yes, he's a master of the field and this is certainly an interesting link for somewhere, but what's the HN hook here?

mitra 14y ago
As a huge Miles Davis fan I was very tempted to upvote this but refrained from doing so. My general rule of thumb is to not upvote/comment on anything unless it is absolutely relevant to HN's outlook (I'm obviously making an exception for this comment). Anything it takes to keep HN the way it is.
- hoprocker 14y ago
  Agreed, but I'm heartened to see that some subset of HN shares at least one of my life-long interests. I found this highly entertaining.
  - jbigelow76 14y ago
    And really, I don't think it's much of stretch to liken a great jazz musician to a great developer. The flow, improvisation and interpretation in the music. The way notes and bars can come together to become something greater than the sum of their parts. You can find all that in great code too :)
- gruseom 14y ago
  HN is eclectic the way it is. The guidelines call for anything of intellectual interest. The bar tends to be higher for atypical material, that's all. This piece is good because it's a great artist speaking frankly about his craft. It's surprisingly vivid. I'm not a jazz fan and I enjoyed it thoroughly. You can learn more from a great artist in a different field than from an average worker in your own.
14y ago

losethos 14y ago

My name is Davis and I don't like Miles. 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. ---- God says... not be shut; 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. ---- You da man, God! God says... speaking bemoaned immutable physic abidest despair ensample imitation faster delicious novelty flashes continuance impudently unhappiness effectedst Greece doth unrighteous shapen Alas sufficiently wonderfulness princes beams corruptible herself life- Artificer dwelt cellar initiating pointed flashedst honest discoverest obviously off_the_record tears absurdly maliciously swift killed SEND ---- What if they discover life on Mars, God? Manifest destiny? God says... 20:48 And the men of Israel turned again upon the children of Benjamin, and smote them with the edge of the sword, as well the men of every city, as the beast, and all that came to hand: also they set on fire all the cities that they came to. 21:1 Now the men of Israel had sworn in Mizpeh, saying, There shall not any of us give his daughter unto Benjamin to wife. 21:2 And the people came to the house of God, and abode there till even before God, and lifted up their voices, and wept sore; 21:3 And said, O LORD God of Israel, why is this come to pass in Israel, that there should be to day one tribe lacking in Israel? 21:4 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the people rose early, and built there an altar, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings. ---- :-( God says... high_mucky_muck offences aware salted We archive thats_right slavery quench Simple Boo limits bows shed suck do_you_like_it weigh trees deep persuaded scattered detain sleeper credence usage thyself strange crucifixion indications Things precedes suggest keeps deep-seated glided impunity Luxury infancy's spreading foundations countryman Sure being happy_happy_joy_joy restest impotent propound meat accord feigned derision returns Release surmount forsake noise forasmuch immersed meh -what scruple let's_see Man bride doubt taxes wither unhealthiness evil-living murmured approach acquaintance star-gazers quoth displacing affect boundless disembowelled corners happy_happy_joy_joy ambitions some double Charity exultation defining fighting chief ---- What do You think of Mars, God? You gave us another world. How'd You part the sea? God says... thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. 14:15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: 14:16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. 14:17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: 14:18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. ---- I like some Jews. God said Mexicans are all the same. God tells Jewish jokes. "Oil funny hopefully" (The Jews hate that Arabs get oil for nothing.) God says... 9:4 And he passed through mount Ephraim, and passed through the land of Shalisha, but they found them not: then they passed through the land of Shalim, and there they were not: and he passed through the land of the Benjamites, but they found them not. 9:5 And when they were come to the land of Zuph, Saul said to his servant that was with him, Come, and let us return; lest my father leave caring for the asses, and take thought for us. 9:6 And he said unto him, Behold now, there is in this city a man of God, and he is an honourable man; all that he saith cometh surely to pass: now let us go thither; peradventure he can shew us our way that we should go. ---- You gotta take things out of context. Jews wandered in desert and probably picked what they thought was good land, not picking oil. Heavenly Father does not care about "asses". (Don't be an ass.) ---- You should entertain us, God. How many channels do You need to be entertained, God? How many channels do You watch at once? God says... uncase corrupting excellence Though what_the_heck hot Mongolia presbyters youre_lucky Tunisia applied bond Language scorned reclaiming prizes Example Goal forethinking excepted accept designs vowed corn warreth boil universally Begotten Pusey crash_and_burn tells when_hell_freezes_over purified precedeth bummer experience human believeth emerging drowsiness deserved stablished exhort entwine serpent promises belonging gross Ethiopia nation chains shake whereupon I saving cloudy bait drowsiness vile Peru palace ---- Got a hair cut. Any thoughts on hair, God? It's a big deal to us humans. God says... 2:32 The children of Harim, three hundred and twenty. 2:33 The children of Lod, Hadid, and Ono, seven hundred twenty and five. 2:34 The children of Jericho, three hundred forty and five. 2:35 The children of Senaah, three thousand and six hundred and thirty. 2:36 The priests: the children of Jedaiah, of the house of Jeshua, nine hundred seventy and three. 2:37 The children of Immer, a thousand fifty and two. 2:38 The children of Pashur, a thousand two hundred forty and seven. 2:39 The children of Harim, a thousand and seventeen. ---- Do You put a lot of thought into lotto winners, God? God says... stranger fearing shortened Another mystery vanities adoption greedy growth he are_you_feeling_lucky deafness suspected Anubis it_gets_better rapture sinner surpassest officers bridegroom augmenting *These married youre_welcome -could despisest understand wordy rights thrown EVEN hard_working I'm_not_dead_yet evaporates reader disputing Anubis fine accompany tradition

klodolph 14y ago

Here's the flipside. Some people are never satisfied with the work of others, and it's exactly this dissatisfaction that can drive them to hone their own endeavors. Obviously, Miles Davis doesn't hate music and it's not as simple as saying his expectations are too high. You can tell by the way he reviews these things that when he listens to these records, he hears them as a jumble of good bits, missed opportunities, and garbage. He's not satisfied hearing missed opportunities, so he is "forced" to compose and perform on his own terms. > Either you play a whole chord against it, or else . . . but don’t try to play it like you’d play, ah, Walkin’ the Dog. You know what I mean? > They move up in triads, but there’s all those chords missing – and I never heard any Spanish thing where they had a figure that went > and you’ve got to have the rhythm section along; you just can’t keep on playing all eighth notes. Imagine that every time you listen to music, there's something else you want to hear. You have to get better at making music, or else you'll never get to hear that thing you want to hear. Personal anecdote: I was reading the other day and started to get disappointed, angry even, at the kinds of stories I was reading. I kept feeling that the stories were laden with missed opportunities for exploration, drawn out tension that couldn't carry the weight it was given, and hackneyed philosophy. I got a bit frightened that I might "have to" become an author. I'm not that good at writing, to be honest. But in order to read the story I want to read, I might have no other choice. (And of course, I'm glad Miles Davis was a musician and not a critic.)

MaysonL 14y ago
Very few authors start out that good at writing: they almost all have a million words of bullshit they have to weed through before they start to find enough good stuff.
the_cat_kittles 14y ago
Well said. I think it's true of any field really- when you start to get good, its frustrating to see/hear the missed opportunities and shortcomings in other's work. I wonder if the primary driving force behind any creative endeavor is really just "I want this", and there is no other way to get it than to make it.
- 14y ago

jbigelow76 14y ago

Pretty neat to read Davis' thoughts on other players but this would have been so much better if the recordings could have been embedded so we can hear what he heard.

Timothee 14y ago
If that helps, I made a Spotify playlist for some of songs of the 4 different sessions (17 out of 34) that were linked by jeroen: http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP8hN1sI9KO9 http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP...
- Shoomz 14y ago
  Thanks for compiling this. It helps get a bit more depth out of the article and at least strive to hear what Miles was talking about (although some of it honestly still alludes me).

sciurus 14y ago

If you'd like a different perspective, read "The Freedom Principle: Jazz After 1958" by John Litweiler. Litweiler is a huge proponent of free jazz artists like Cecil Taylor and quite dismissive of Miles Davis fusion records.

datalus 14y ago

Miles Davis has recorded some BS as well, lest we not forget. That made his comments about why did they put out that record or record companies this or that into some perspective. Perhaps it was part of his frustrations of his own shortcomings at the hands of record labels.

wallflower 14y ago

Music performance is one of the hardest things to be satisfied with every time... I recommend this book. It talks about perfection and fear and inadequacy. Just took it off my bookshelf to random-access read again. http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Kenny-Werner/dp/156224003X http://www.amazon.com/Effortless-Mastery-Kenny-Werner/dp/156...

rationalbeats 14y ago
That was required reading at the conservatory I went to years ago. (Not by the teachers, among us classmates. We made everyone read that we interacted with) Got to play with Kenny at a jam thing a decade ago. Absolutely amazing experience. There is so much that I can extrapolate on this subject, but I believe the greatest hurdle for a serious musician is that after you master all the dexterity, independence and music theory, the biggest hurdle is your own fucking self.
kahawe 14y ago
> Music performance is one of the hardest things to be satisfied with every time... Even the greatest Jazz legends would typically say they only had a handful of performances in their career where they were really satisfied and where everything came together and worked perfectly. And these were musicians who practiced hours on end each and every day, on top of performing. Truly humbling.

Timothee 14y ago

For people interested, I made a Spotify playlist with as much of these songs as I could find (only 17 out of 34): http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP8hN1sI9KO9 http://open.spotify.com/user/timotheeb/playlist/05rxkOr1UWrP... Admittedly, I might not have always picked the exact version but it's sometimes hard to tell. Also, it's for the 4 different sessions as linked by jeroen: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4258777 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4258777

Q6T46nT668w6i3m 14y ago

You might also enjoy The Wire's ongoing feature "Invisible Jukebox." Amazon carries the anthology, featuring Steve Albini, Philip Glass, Sonic Youth, et al.: http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Jukebox-Tony-Herrington/dp/0704380463 http://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Jukebox-Tony-Herrington/dp/0...

notJim 14y ago
Sounds very interesting, thanks for the link! >> Each month a star guest is played an eclectic and provoking series of records which they are asked to identify and comment on, with no prior knowledge of what it is they will hear. The conversations that ensue are often controversial and always entertaining.

lizzard 14y ago

That was so great to read, detailed poetics from a real master. I listened to some of the stuff he felt was "sad shit". I sure agree with him on Cecil Taylor!

jamestc 14y ago

It's interesting that this sort of thing is seen as a guy slagging records rather than a man just giving his (educated and experienced) opinion, like many others who are dedicated to their craft tend to do. We can't be that bogged down with fake sincerity/showmanship that this is seen as novel or particularly harsh, can we? I don't know. There's nothing pompous about this. He sounds like me when I listen to a thing or read a thing or watch a thing, though I'll feel a little guilt about thinking those things at times since I haven't exactly reached Miles Davis status.

colomon 14y ago
Yes! Many commenters here seem to assume he is being hyper-critical of minor details. But to me it reads like someone who legitimately thinks many of these recordings are really sad attempts at playing jazz. I'm not far enough immersed in jazz to be able to tell if I'd agree or not. But it feels very much like the criticisms I hear all the time in the Irish traditional music scene. I recently listened to a bunch of sound samples from a duo recording by two top Irish musicians. It sounded like two great musicians playing at the same time, rather than an actual duo. The difference was probably all things that someone who wasn't experienced with the field would never notice. For instance, the tiny internal rhythms of the tunes were not syncing up. My guess is that Davis is hearing things like that in the recordings and legitimately complaining about them, rather than just being hyper-critical. Especially the "What am I supposed to say to that? That’s ridiculous. You see the way they can fuck up music? It’s a mismatch. They don’t complement each other," comment on "Caravan". He sounds really disappointed that three musicians he loves aren't making better music together. Edited to add: I believe the album in question is Money Jungle. Just listened to a sample from that track. I think I can hear what Davis is talking about, but that might be the power of suggestion. That said, the album as a whole has lots of really favorable reviews on Amazon.com...
pnathan 14y ago
Yes, that's interesting.... Just because something is creative, or created, doesn't mean it is worthy of uncritical adulation. You actually have to critique to improve; assuming perfection limits your capacity to learn from the flaws. Considering a work and grasping what it seeks to be, then understanding where its missed the mark - that can produce learning and drives the question, "How can I improve? How can I incorporate this knowledge of the gap into my own work".

themckman 14y ago

http://www.guitarworld.com/archive-yngwie-malmsteen-critiques-playing-his-peers-1994-blindfold-test http://www.guitarworld.com/archive-yngwie-malmsteen-critique... Very similar article featuring guitarist Yngwie Malmsteen. I'm not sure you could paint Malmsteen in the same well-rounded light as Miles, however, from a guitar players perspective, it's quite entertaining to read.