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The deep stupidity with which this subject has been met by political organizations and the broader populace has caused me to reexamine most of my expectations o

The deep stupidity with which this subject has been met by political organizations and the broader populace has caused me to reexamine most of my expectations of "adult" behavior from both groups. In 50 years on this planet I've never been closer to losing the battle with nihilism.

paulddraper 2y ago
The response was truly insane.
- defrost 2y ago
  It seemed entirely appropriate and exactly on point from my PoV: On 24 March, Western Australia closed its borders to the rest of Australia, and on 1 April, the state implemented borders between regions in the state. By mid-April 2020, the state had eliminated community transmission of COVID-19, becoming one of the few places in the world to do so. Elsewhere (the UK and US in particular) looked like a total clusterf*ck. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Western_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Western_A... and: https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/review-of-was-covid-19-management-and-response https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier...
  - yieldcrv 2y ago
    > During May 2022, Western Australia experienced sharply rising cases amongst the highest per capita cases seen anywhere in the world throughout the pandemic. Just delaying it to 2022 according to those same articles, as it had already exited the evolutionary fit population’s memory everywhere else in the world
    - defrost 2y ago
      Delaying any free active COVID presence until 99% of the state population had been double vaccinated and following COVID infections resulted in very few hospitalisations and one of the lowest per capita COVID death rates globally. I suggest you read the articles, from the linked Wikipedia source: Why are there so many Covid cases in Australia? Prof Catherine Bennett, the chair in epidemiology at Deakin University, said Australia’s high reported infection rate may be the result of high “case ascertainment”. Although PCR testing rates have dropped off in Australia, “we’re probably still doing it more so than anywhere else in the world”, Bennett said. “We still have free PCR testing. A lot of countries don’t.” The number of confirmed Covid cases shouldn’t be relied on in isolation, Bennett said. “If you compare us to, say, the UK, they look much better for infection rates,” she said. “The UK’s confirmed case rate is 128 cases per million – less than a tenth of Australia’s 1,515 figure. “Yet their hospitalisation rate per million is 209, and ours is 124. It suggests that they probably have twice as many [true] cases [as Australia].” ~ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/07/explainer-why-are-covid-infection-rates-in-australia-so-high-compared-to-other-countries https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/07/explainer-why-... In short, we paid attention to case numbers, when we had zero cases we had zero cases and when we had 1,500 mild infections post vaccnation we had 1,500 mild infections. Other places seemed to run on guesswork and magical thinking.
      - yieldcrv 2y ago
        I’m glad that worked for them and that there are various states worldwide to compare in that way. China’s surprise loosening was a disaster, as their vaccines were not the same and didnt have comparable efficacy.
    - bcrosby95 2y ago
      And you bet your ass I'd rather be in the hospital with covid in 2022 than 2020.
    - exe34 2y ago
      that only happened because everybody else fucked up - which is of course predictable, you can't assume 192 countries will do the exact right thing all at the same time. so I agree, they just delayed the inevitable.
      - defrost 2y ago
        > they just delayed the inevitable. We did, and the inevitable was 99% double vaccination, very few serious (hospitalisation) cases, very few deaths, at the cost of business as usual within the state and goods being quarentine 'airlocked' in and out across the border.
        exe34 2y ago
        Sounds like you guys did pretty well :-) Here in the UK we always locked down too late, which meant we had to go for longer, and then opened up too early, and offered people free food so they would spread it around again, which meant we had to lock down again. And we sent sick people into old people's homes and then went shocked pikachu when a load of them died.
        defrost 2y ago
        Yes, thankfully. I wrote a longer reply but for some rare unknown reason HN ate my homework :( .. and it's late in the day here ATM.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      I feel like delaying it isn't a bad move. There were no vaccines or known effective treatments available in early 2020, health services were unprepared and became overwhelmed, and no one knew even simple things about the virus, like how it was transmitted. In 2022, I'm sure pretty much any region would be much better prepared to get hit by COVID-19 for the "first" time.
      - yieldcrv 2y ago
        yes, as they were in 2021 as well. my main observation is that it was too long for most of the population and your standard has no limit. most places did not improve their hospital capacity and infrastructure. some conjecture about the virus was answered but thats it.
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago
      Use of the phrase "evolutionary fit population" in this (or any) context strongly suggests you support some/most/all of the ideology behind eugenics. Godwins Law violation inbound in 3...2...1...
      - yieldcrv 2y ago
        I’m referring to what happened, accurately We have an aging population that has representatives like them, they optimized for themselves and it was not necessary for the rest of us. Beforesight, in hindsight, and we are still not represented in the mental health repercussions that should be weighed, especially amongst the maladjusted adolescent and now young adult population that makes more sense to have been optimized for in a functioning society. And what did we do with slowing down how many elderly people died? We did not expand hospital capacity in but did buy time in a coincidence that has almost no standard of review. For example, In the US if only 100,000 people died instead of 1 million (or the 10 million some were afraid of), it still would be a political disaster for whoever was in office, the same at 10,000, or even the 3,000 matching 9/11. Its good that the hospital system didnt get overwhelmed, or for long in some municipalities, by mostly coincidence. Response could have been tailored to factor in reality quicker, which is what ultimately happened anyway: A bifurcated system where those fit interacted with the world, and those not did not. Many of them are still functionally quarantined to this day. Could have been the same by 2021, everywhere.
ookblah 2y ago
same. we probably encounter this type of thing every 100 or so years for centuries, just enough for the previous generation to die off and the new generation to make all the same dumb mistakes again.
- trilbyglens 2y ago
  Not really true, when you consider how many died of Spanish flu in the early 20th century. We now understand so much more, and despite our shitty ha fling of it, we had a vaccine in a couple of years, and lockdowns and testing regimes likely saved tens of millions of lives. Reality doesn't support your pessimism.
  - ookblah 2y ago
    i mean, obviously advances in modern medicine has saved lives. it's not like i want to go back to the stone age. it would help to understand the point i'm making first. you know those movies where all humans band together in the face of adversity? i now know the reality is that it will be full of nonstop misinformation and political infighting along the way. i suppose i understood it on an intellectual level but seeing it play out is something different. we are more idiocracy than contagion.
- em500 2y ago
  Even if we have another Covid-like pandemic in 5 or 10 years, the social/political response will probably not be much different/better than last time. In this sense we've really learned very little from Covid.
wahnfrieden 2y ago
Have you considered there were ulterior motives to getting people back to work besides health and safety? It's a power game
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Without question.
xenospn 2y ago
[flagged]
friend_Fernando 2y ago
I agree about the response. From a Bayesian perspective, our priors were that society would respond better, and that the pandemic wouldn't be politicized (much.) Something I find of interest is the set of all conjectures whose Bayesian probability estimates would be significantly revised in light of this discrepancy.
modeless 2y ago
This comment could have easily been written either by someone who thinks the response went too far or by someone who thinks it didn't go far enough.
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Thank you for reinforcing my point so vividly. There's a reason 75% of the ongoing covid fatalities worldwide happen in the US.

paulddraper 2y ago

The response was truly insane.

defrost 2y ago
It seemed entirely appropriate and exactly on point from my PoV: On 24 March, Western Australia closed its borders to the rest of Australia, and on 1 April, the state implemented borders between regions in the state. By mid-April 2020, the state had eliminated community transmission of COVID-19, becoming one of the few places in the world to do so. Elsewhere (the UK and US in particular) looked like a total clusterf*ck. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Western_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Western_A... and: https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier-and-cabinet/review-of-was-covid-19-management-and-response https://www.wa.gov.au/organisation/department-of-the-premier...
- yieldcrv 2y ago
  > During May 2022, Western Australia experienced sharply rising cases amongst the highest per capita cases seen anywhere in the world throughout the pandemic. Just delaying it to 2022 according to those same articles, as it had already exited the evolutionary fit population’s memory everywhere else in the world
  - defrost 2y ago
    Delaying any free active COVID presence until 99% of the state population had been double vaccinated and following COVID infections resulted in very few hospitalisations and one of the lowest per capita COVID death rates globally. I suggest you read the articles, from the linked Wikipedia source: Why are there so many Covid cases in Australia? Prof Catherine Bennett, the chair in epidemiology at Deakin University, said Australia’s high reported infection rate may be the result of high “case ascertainment”. Although PCR testing rates have dropped off in Australia, “we’re probably still doing it more so than anywhere else in the world”, Bennett said. “We still have free PCR testing. A lot of countries don’t.” The number of confirmed Covid cases shouldn’t be relied on in isolation, Bennett said. “If you compare us to, say, the UK, they look much better for infection rates,” she said. “The UK’s confirmed case rate is 128 cases per million – less than a tenth of Australia’s 1,515 figure. “Yet their hospitalisation rate per million is 209, and ours is 124. It suggests that they probably have twice as many [true] cases [as Australia].” ~ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/07/explainer-why-are-covid-infection-rates-in-australia-so-high-compared-to-other-countries https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/07/explainer-why-... In short, we paid attention to case numbers, when we had zero cases we had zero cases and when we had 1,500 mild infections post vaccnation we had 1,500 mild infections. Other places seemed to run on guesswork and magical thinking.
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      I’m glad that worked for them and that there are various states worldwide to compare in that way. China’s surprise loosening was a disaster, as their vaccines were not the same and didnt have comparable efficacy.
  - bcrosby95 2y ago
    And you bet your ass I'd rather be in the hospital with covid in 2022 than 2020.
  - exe34 2y ago
    that only happened because everybody else fucked up - which is of course predictable, you can't assume 192 countries will do the exact right thing all at the same time. so I agree, they just delayed the inevitable.
    - defrost 2y ago
      > they just delayed the inevitable. We did, and the inevitable was 99% double vaccination, very few serious (hospitalisation) cases, very few deaths, at the cost of business as usual within the state and goods being quarentine 'airlocked' in and out across the border.
      - exe34 2y ago
        Sounds like you guys did pretty well :-) Here in the UK we always locked down too late, which meant we had to go for longer, and then opened up too early, and offered people free food so they would spread it around again, which meant we had to lock down again. And we sent sick people into old people's homes and then went shocked pikachu when a load of them died.
        defrost 2y ago
        Yes, thankfully. I wrote a longer reply but for some rare unknown reason HN ate my homework :( .. and it's late in the day here ATM.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    I feel like delaying it isn't a bad move. There were no vaccines or known effective treatments available in early 2020, health services were unprepared and became overwhelmed, and no one knew even simple things about the virus, like how it was transmitted. In 2022, I'm sure pretty much any region would be much better prepared to get hit by COVID-19 for the "first" time.
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      yes, as they were in 2021 as well. my main observation is that it was too long for most of the population and your standard has no limit. most places did not improve their hospital capacity and infrastructure. some conjecture about the virus was answered but thats it.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    Use of the phrase "evolutionary fit population" in this (or any) context strongly suggests you support some/most/all of the ideology behind eugenics. Godwins Law violation inbound in 3...2...1...
    - yieldcrv 2y ago
      I’m referring to what happened, accurately We have an aging population that has representatives like them, they optimized for themselves and it was not necessary for the rest of us. Beforesight, in hindsight, and we are still not represented in the mental health repercussions that should be weighed, especially amongst the maladjusted adolescent and now young adult population that makes more sense to have been optimized for in a functioning society. And what did we do with slowing down how many elderly people died? We did not expand hospital capacity in but did buy time in a coincidence that has almost no standard of review. For example, In the US if only 100,000 people died instead of 1 million (or the 10 million some were afraid of), it still would be a political disaster for whoever was in office, the same at 10,000, or even the 3,000 matching 9/11. Its good that the hospital system didnt get overwhelmed, or for long in some municipalities, by mostly coincidence. Response could have been tailored to factor in reality quicker, which is what ultimately happened anyway: A bifurcated system where those fit interacted with the world, and those not did not. Many of them are still functionally quarantined to this day. Could have been the same by 2021, everywhere.

ookblah 2y ago

same. we probably encounter this type of thing every 100 or so years for centuries, just enough for the previous generation to die off and the new generation to make all the same dumb mistakes again.

trilbyglens 2y ago
Not really true, when you consider how many died of Spanish flu in the early 20th century. We now understand so much more, and despite our shitty ha fling of it, we had a vaccine in a couple of years, and lockdowns and testing regimes likely saved tens of millions of lives. Reality doesn't support your pessimism.
- ookblah 2y ago
  i mean, obviously advances in modern medicine has saved lives. it's not like i want to go back to the stone age. it would help to understand the point i'm making first. you know those movies where all humans band together in the face of adversity? i now know the reality is that it will be full of nonstop misinformation and political infighting along the way. i suppose i understood it on an intellectual level but seeing it play out is something different. we are more idiocracy than contagion.
em500 2y ago
Even if we have another Covid-like pandemic in 5 or 10 years, the social/political response will probably not be much different/better than last time. In this sense we've really learned very little from Covid.

wahnfrieden 2y ago

Have you considered there were ulterior motives to getting people back to work besides health and safety? It's a power game

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Without question.

xenospn 2y ago

[flagged]

friend_Fernando 2y ago

I agree about the response. From a Bayesian perspective, our priors were that society would respond better, and that the pandemic wouldn't be politicized (much.) Something I find of interest is the set of all conjectures whose Bayesian probability estimates would be significantly revised in light of this discrepancy.

modeless 2y ago

This comment could have easily been written either by someone who thinks the response went too far or by someone who thinks it didn't go far enough.

forgetfreeman 2y ago
Thank you for reinforcing my point so vividly. There's a reason 75% of the ongoing covid fatalities worldwide happen in the US.