4 ms·

> My ISP absolutely did not in any way manipulate a single bit of that data I'm certainly nitpicking here, but surely they modify the IP TTL field? And probabl

> My ISP absolutely did not in any way manipulate a single bit of that data I'm certainly nitpicking here, but surely they modify the IP TTL field? And probably reset the DSCP bits too? And quite likely - unless you're lucky to have a globally routeable IPv4 address, or living in the IPv6-only future - perform NAT on your traffic? And I'm 99.9999% sure they shape/rate-limit your traffic. Buffering and/or dropping packets is almost inevitable for any larger telecommunication service. Nonetheless, it's not an information service, of course. Still a pipe, just not entirely dumb one.

vel0city 2y ago
> but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service. Need me to say it again? > but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service. NAT, TTL, shaping, etc are all a part of the management of a telecommunications service in the same way managing long distance prefixes and exchanges or dead peer detection or whatever were to the old phone systems.
- abduhl 2y ago
  We can read the brief from the petitioners for the (apparently winning) response to this on p 38 of https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca6.151470/gov.uscourts.ca6.151470.54.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca6.151... “That exception focuses on inward-facing controls. But ISPs do not use DNS or caching to ‘manage, control, or operate’ their own purported ‘telecommunications system’ or ‘telecommunications service.’ Both DNS and caching provide a user-facing functionality.”
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Petitioners can write whatever they want to write. They can write 2+2=22 and I guess you'd believe it. What a dumb argument to parrot. Do you choose your ISP based on how good their DNS services are? No? Doesn't seem like DNS is the thing people are signing up for but simply a way for the service to function. Oh boy, I can't wait to get home to hop on my Comcast service so I can go query their DNS! It's what the family does on a Thursday evening. So riveting! In the end DNS isn't really the information people care about and actually largely is used for managing telecommunications service.
    - abduhl 2y ago
      I can see that you are extremely emotionally invested in this decision for some reason, but there’s no need to resort to these type of hysterical personal attacks. I have no horse in this race, I am just providing the apparently persuasive (and winning) counter to your argument.

vel0city 2y ago

> but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service. Need me to say it again? > but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service. NAT, TTL, shaping, etc are all a part of the management of a telecommunications service in the same way managing long distance prefixes and exchanges or dead peer detection or whatever were to the old phone systems.

abduhl 2y ago
We can read the brief from the petitioners for the (apparently winning) response to this on p 38 of https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca6.151470/gov.uscourts.ca6.151470.54.0.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ca6.151... “That exception focuses on inward-facing controls. But ISPs do not use DNS or caching to ‘manage, control, or operate’ their own purported ‘telecommunications system’ or ‘telecommunications service.’ Both DNS and caching provide a user-facing functionality.”
- vel0city 2y ago
  Petitioners can write whatever they want to write. They can write 2+2=22 and I guess you'd believe it. What a dumb argument to parrot. Do you choose your ISP based on how good their DNS services are? No? Doesn't seem like DNS is the thing people are signing up for but simply a way for the service to function. Oh boy, I can't wait to get home to hop on my Comcast service so I can go query their DNS! It's what the family does on a Thursday evening. So riveting! In the end DNS isn't really the information people care about and actually largely is used for managing telecommunications service.
  - abduhl 2y ago
    I can see that you are extremely emotionally invested in this decision for some reason, but there’s no need to resort to these type of hysterical personal attacks. I have no horse in this race, I am just providing the apparently persuasive (and winning) counter to your argument.