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No, it is absolutely not “what you’re familiar with”. Is there a “spring” command that generates controller + view + test for you? That does migrations? Can you

No, it is absolutely not “what you’re familiar with”. Is there a “spring” command that generates controller + view + test for you? That does migrations? Can you say “install spring” and get everything you need to start without stitching dozens of scattered spring artifacts? I’m not even going to talk about one of the most verbose languages out there locked into OOP, made dynamic with thousands of annotations and held together by a DI framework. Spring is an industrial factory that is good for huge teams, because it acts as a straight jacket.

sverhagen 2y ago
You're embarrassing yourself as much as the article I was responding to by speaking in these absolutes. I have no doubt you worked on a ("huge") team that made all the wrong choices around Spring, or something like that, and by no means will I claim that OO is the best paradigm, though Java has adopted enough from other paradigms to give you at least some alternatives ways todo things. And I have worked in my share of dysfunctional projects, but I'm currently working on a small team that is highly productive with Spring Boot, and we wouldn't want it any other way.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  I’ve literally pointed out real issues that you have to slog through when you start with Spring.
  - sverhagen 2y ago
    There are plenty of Spring Boot starter dependencies that you can pull in to do some of the things you're mentioning. Can you say "install spring"? Yeah, I think so, there's the Initializer that comes in different modalities. Migrations, you ask? Not sure what kind, but Flyway or Liquibase are some popular dependencies, which are natively supported by Spring Boot. Again, it's all a breeze, as I'm sure Rails is too. I get that there are poor workplaces making Spring applications a hellscape, and some of those folks escape to go do (let's say) Rails. Others may decide that Java and Spring are fundamentally fine, but need to be used in better ways and then they do so, we're not all idiots (not suggesting that you said so).
    - wiseowise 2y ago
      My point was that Rails and Spring prioritize different things. And while you can end up with roughly equal result with both, the path can be drastically different. Never wanted to suggest that whoever uses Spring over Rails is an idiot and vice versa. Cheers.

sverhagen 2y ago

You're embarrassing yourself as much as the article I was responding to by speaking in these absolutes. I have no doubt you worked on a ("huge") team that made all the wrong choices around Spring, or something like that, and by no means will I claim that OO is the best paradigm, though Java has adopted enough from other paradigms to give you at least some alternatives ways todo things. And I have worked in my share of dysfunctional projects, but I'm currently working on a small team that is highly productive with Spring Boot, and we wouldn't want it any other way.

wiseowise 2y ago
I’ve literally pointed out real issues that you have to slog through when you start with Spring.
- sverhagen 2y ago
  There are plenty of Spring Boot starter dependencies that you can pull in to do some of the things you're mentioning. Can you say "install spring"? Yeah, I think so, there's the Initializer that comes in different modalities. Migrations, you ask? Not sure what kind, but Flyway or Liquibase are some popular dependencies, which are natively supported by Spring Boot. Again, it's all a breeze, as I'm sure Rails is too. I get that there are poor workplaces making Spring applications a hellscape, and some of those folks escape to go do (let's say) Rails. Others may decide that Java and Spring are fundamentally fine, but need to be used in better ways and then they do so, we're not all idiots (not suggesting that you said so).
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    My point was that Rails and Spring prioritize different things. And while you can end up with roughly equal result with both, the path can be drastically different. Never wanted to suggest that whoever uses Spring over Rails is an idiot and vice versa. Cheers.