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>I'd consider owning a very cheap small EV for my daily needs, but not at the prices they command today. Is that due to EV prices or car prices in general? I

by floxy 2y ago

>I'd consider owning a very cheap small EV for my daily needs, but not at the prices they command today. Is that due to EV prices or car prices in general? I guess it depends on where you are and what price you pay for electricity. But I also think a lot of people haven't internalized the price inflation of new and used cars in the last 4 years. A second generation Leaf with less that 25k miles can be had for less than $15,000, and it is should be eligible for a $4,000 used EV tax credit (if your income is under $150k): https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/3348306?refSource=srp https://www.carvana.com/vehicle/3348306?refSource=srp

SoftTalker 2y ago
I should probably sit down and do the math on elecricity vs. gas and the payback time, but for reference I am something of a bottom-feeder when it comes to cars. I have pretty good success with used ICE cars in the $4-6k range. I look for southern cars with no rust/salt damage. They are out there, but you won't find them on Carvana. My current daily driver is a 20 year old Mercedes E class that I bought for $4k. It's a V8 and takes premium gas, but I average close to 20mpg and don't really drive enough miles for that to be a huge dealbreaker. With $4/gal gas I might burn $8/day with typical driving. That might be roughly 10 kWh in a Leaf? I don't know what the losses are in charging but if that's 20 kWh to recharge, that would be maybe $4/day? So I'd save maybe $80/month if I drive 20 days a month? That's all very wild guesstimating but seems like it would take 10 years to pay back the price difference, also considering that I could not really drive the Leaf on any longer trips at all.
- floxy 2y ago
  Charging efficiency is ~85% efficient. As far as I can tell, when it comes to used cars in my area, $10k is the new $4k. No way would I buy a $4k car any more, and I'm in the market for a beater for a kid's car. $4,000 buys a 2003 Toyota Corolla with 250,000 miles and 9 previous owners and some moderate damage according to CarFax.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    You have to look around but better cars are out there. I bought a '04 Mercedes E500 for $4k about 2 years ago. Had about 160k miles, no rust. Was it perfect, certainly not. Had some wear and tear but fundamentally was a solid car. I still see them in this price range today. I totally get that someone might not want to deal with the unknowns and risks of a 20 year old car. Good to know that the charging efficiency is better than I guessed. I'll have to run the numbers again next time I'm needing a car. EVs have an appeal, no doubt. But for me they have to make economic and practical sense.
    - mu53 2y ago
      German cars tend to be cheap because maintenance costs are crazy. The have more parts, and each part is more expensive. You could easily get hit with a mechanic bill for greater than the value
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  40 miles is about 10kWh, yes, which would be 11.5kWh at the meter. I pay 7cents/kWh, so you're paying about 10X per mile as I am for fuel. I've driven old BMW's, and I had to budget about $3k/year for maintenance & repairs, I imagine your Merc is similar. So you're spending $400/month for your "cheap" car. A 3 year old Tesla for 20K would likely save you a considerable amount of money.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    I do my own maintenance and repair and don't spend anything close to that (not counting my time, but it's a hobby for me). Insurance and registration is also cheaper.
GenerWork 2y ago
>should be eligible for a $4,000 used EV tax credit (if your income is under $150k): This is only true if you do a joint file. If you're a single filer, it phases out once your income is above $75k, or $112k for heads of household.
- floxy 2y ago
  Yes, thanks for the correction.

by floxy 2y ago

SoftTalker 2y ago

I should probably sit down and do the math on elecricity vs. gas and the payback time, but for reference I am something of a bottom-feeder when it comes to cars. I have pretty good success with used ICE cars in the $4-6k range. I look for southern cars with no rust/salt damage. They are out there, but you won't find them on Carvana. My current daily driver is a 20 year old Mercedes E class that I bought for $4k. It's a V8 and takes premium gas, but I average close to 20mpg and don't really drive enough miles for that to be a huge dealbreaker. With $4/gal gas I might burn $8/day with typical driving. That might be roughly 10 kWh in a Leaf? I don't know what the losses are in charging but if that's 20 kWh to recharge, that would be maybe $4/day? So I'd save maybe $80/month if I drive 20 days a month? That's all very wild guesstimating but seems like it would take 10 years to pay back the price difference, also considering that I could not really drive the Leaf on any longer trips at all.

floxy 2y ago
Charging efficiency is ~85% efficient. As far as I can tell, when it comes to used cars in my area, $10k is the new $4k. No way would I buy a $4k car any more, and I'm in the market for a beater for a kid's car. $4,000 buys a 2003 Toyota Corolla with 250,000 miles and 9 previous owners and some moderate damage according to CarFax.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  You have to look around but better cars are out there. I bought a '04 Mercedes E500 for $4k about 2 years ago. Had about 160k miles, no rust. Was it perfect, certainly not. Had some wear and tear but fundamentally was a solid car. I still see them in this price range today. I totally get that someone might not want to deal with the unknowns and risks of a 20 year old car. Good to know that the charging efficiency is better than I guessed. I'll have to run the numbers again next time I'm needing a car. EVs have an appeal, no doubt. But for me they have to make economic and practical sense.
  - mu53 2y ago
    German cars tend to be cheap because maintenance costs are crazy. The have more parts, and each part is more expensive. You could easily get hit with a mechanic bill for greater than the value
bryanlarsen 2y ago
40 miles is about 10kWh, yes, which would be 11.5kWh at the meter. I pay 7cents/kWh, so you're paying about 10X per mile as I am for fuel. I've driven old BMW's, and I had to budget about $3k/year for maintenance & repairs, I imagine your Merc is similar. So you're spending $400/month for your "cheap" car. A 3 year old Tesla for 20K would likely save you a considerable amount of money.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  I do my own maintenance and repair and don't spend anything close to that (not counting my time, but it's a hobby for me). Insurance and registration is also cheaper.

GenerWork 2y ago

>should be eligible for a $4,000 used EV tax credit (if your income is under $150k): This is only true if you do a joint file. If you're a single filer, it phases out once your income is above $75k, or $112k for heads of household.

floxy 2y ago
Yes, thanks for the correction.