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So the price for gold is about 80000 $ per kg. So the debt is equal to 375000 metric tons of gold. Estimates say that in all history about 244,000 metric tons h

by amai 2y ago

So the price for gold is about 80000 $ per kg. So the debt is equal to 375000 metric tons of gold. Estimates say that in all history about 244,000 metric tons have been found: https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-gold-has-been-found-world https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-much-gold-has-been-found-world So the USA couldn't pay back its debt now even if it had all gold in the world.

vardump 2y ago
Say USA had 375k metric tons of gold and wants to use it for paying the debt. This would just crash the gold price and the debt would be nowhere near serviced.
- chongli 2y ago
  Well if the US had all the gold in the world then it will have cornered the market in gold. This would cause the price of gold to skyrocket and the US could trickle some gold into the market for immense profit. In this way the national debt could be serviced easily. Who cares about paying off the principle in a lump sum when you have a guaranteed revenue stream like that with gold?
  - gilleain 2y ago
    Learned the other day about the 'Hunt Brothers' attempts to do something similar in the silver markets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday > The brothers were estimated to hold one-third of the entire world supply of silver not held by governments. It did not go well for them in the end, of course.
    - chongli 2y ago
      Another pair of traders, Sam Siegel and Vincent Kosuga, had more success cornering the onion futures market [1]. It caused such a crisis in the price of onions (and significant onion spoilage) that Congress passed a law specifically banning the trade of onion futures contracts. One of the most bizarre trading stories and regulatory actions I’ve ever seen! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act?wprov=sfti1#
  - vardump 2y ago
    I should have remembered to mention "in addition to all the other gold currently owned by other parties."
psychoslave 2y ago
Any State can unilaterally decide it will withdraw all debts it has ever contracted, and ta-da, no-one changed the definition of a debt but there is no debt anymore (which most likely wouldn’t be free of social consequences though). On the other hands, if a group of humans want to declare that there is no tree or no star in the universe, the only trick they can leverage on to shrink the count is to change the definition of these words (ta-da, good bye Pluto).

by amai 2y ago

vardump 2y ago

Say USA had 375k metric tons of gold and wants to use it for paying the debt. This would just crash the gold price and the debt would be nowhere near serviced.

chongli 2y ago
Well if the US had all the gold in the world then it will have cornered the market in gold. This would cause the price of gold to skyrocket and the US could trickle some gold into the market for immense profit. In this way the national debt could be serviced easily. Who cares about paying off the principle in a lump sum when you have a guaranteed revenue stream like that with gold?
- gilleain 2y ago
  Learned the other day about the 'Hunt Brothers' attempts to do something similar in the silver markets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday > The brothers were estimated to hold one-third of the entire world supply of silver not held by governments. It did not go well for them in the end, of course.
  - chongli 2y ago
    Another pair of traders, Sam Siegel and Vincent Kosuga, had more success cornering the onion futures market [1]. It caused such a crisis in the price of onions (and significant onion spoilage) that Congress passed a law specifically banning the trade of onion futures contracts. One of the most bizarre trading stories and regulatory actions I’ve ever seen! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act?wprov=sfti1#
- vardump 2y ago
  I should have remembered to mention "in addition to all the other gold currently owned by other parties."

psychoslave 2y ago

Any State can unilaterally decide it will withdraw all debts it has ever contracted, and ta-da, no-one changed the definition of a debt but there is no debt anymore (which most likely wouldn’t be free of social consequences though). On the other hands, if a group of humans want to declare that there is no tree or no star in the universe, the only trick they can leverage on to shrink the count is to change the definition of these words (ta-da, good bye Pluto).