5 ms·

I wonder why so many articles continue to say "exploded" and "caught fire" when by now it's clear that it was a deliberate act. I mean, it's not wrong, but it s

I wonder why so many articles continue to say "exploded" and "caught fire" when by now it's clear that it was a deliberate act. I mean, it's not wrong, but it seems to insinuate that there's something wrong with the vehicle that caused the explosion, rather than someone intentionally stuffing it full of fireworks and explosives.

dwood_dev 2y ago
If anything, it seems to have done a decent job of redirecting the explosion upwards.
- palmfacehn 2y ago
  >"The evil knuckleheads picked the wrong vehicle for a terrorist attack. Cybertruck actually contained the explosion and directed the blast upwards. Not even the glass doors of the lobby were broken." https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874614362612326761 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874614362612326761
  - mmooss 2y ago
    What do you think of that -- do you believe it? Why is it important? Why do you think Musk posted it? ?
    - dole 2y ago
      Easy way to save some Cybertruck face and Tesla stock price. “Happy accidents.”
    - palmfacehn 2y ago
      From the reports I've read, the combustible materials consisted of large fireworks and some unpressurized fuel canisters. I'm not an expert in this field, but it seems that these materials, in this configuration, wouldn't create a large explosion outside of a Michael Bay movie. If placed correctly, they could have damaged the facade of the building via heat. If they had put them in a common 50 gal. steel drum with no lid, I suspect the results would have been much the same. Why did he post it? Why did the attacker choose a CyberTruck? If we are going to open up on speculation, then it seems reasonable to suspect that the attacker chose a CyberTruck because of Elon's relationship to the incoming administration. In response it makes sense that Elon would highlight the inept execution. Some partisan responses to the health insurer's assassination have been positive. Even comments on this site seem to be rationalizing the violence. Typically, decent people would condemn terrorist violence as irrational escalation. Highlighting the inept execution and poor planning illustrates the irrationality of the attacker. If Elon can subtly parlay it into some of the safety marketing or durability of his vehicle, that's an extra win on top. Compare the narratives: "Luigi was a smart guy and master planner who read books. Let's plug the author." "It didn't even break the glass"
      - cmurf 2y ago
        Trump, Musk, the Speaker, and Fox News are running with both Vegas and New Orleans events being the result of open borders, despite both perpetrators being American citizens. Is it fair to say this kind of distortion is typical MAGA? Typical Republican? Is it decent? Why lie? Fox initially ran with a story the NOLA truck illegally crossed the border with Mexico. This disinformation is intentional, no one is this incompetent. They know their demographic wants to be lied to. Disinformation is the product they're selling. Same with the politicians.
        palmfacehn 2y ago
        This is a bit of a tangent. I haven't reviewed all of the claims you outlined. Turtles all the way down. I would say it typifies media across the board. There's also the meta-distortion where partisan sources misrepresent the statements of opposing partisans to present them as dishonest.
        mmooss 2y ago
        > I would say it typifies media across the board. It depends on what you mean by 'media', but I think among top-level news media, Fox and ideological fellow travelers embrace disinformation and produce it at orders of magnitude higher volumes, while others make occasional errors.
_giorgio_ 2y ago
Bomb placed right in front of the Trump tower. That's the right title. Do you remember when, for hours and days, CNN and other news sources refused to acknowledge the assassination attempt, saying that he was hit by something not directed at him? https://apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jackson-christopher-wray-cb780b9d1a078f0be4191682e75101cf https://apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jacks...
- palmfacehn 2y ago
  It was one of his hotels in Las Vegas. The Trump Tower is in NYC, but your point is valid none the less.
- afavour 2y ago
  > refused to acknowledge the assassination attempt, saying that he was hit by something not directed at him? That’s usually what happens when news orgs only report confirmed information, e.g. “Trump hit by projectile”. It feels misleading but it’s accurate at the time. If you’re literally saying they were specifically stating he was hit by something “not directed at him” (as opposed to “not confirmed whether it was directed at him”) I’d be fascinated to see some examples.
  - nofunsir 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- NewJazz 2y ago
  No, I don't remember that. Maybe you should cite your source. I seem to remember every major news outlet labeling the event as an assassination attempt, some noted that the shooter mentioned Epstein on social media.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
magic_smoke_ee 2y ago
Apply Hanlon's razor. There was zero shrapnel and most of the force blew upwards. It definitely could've been a really poor use of judgement of storing flammable gasoline and fireworks in a confined space that then found an ignition source in the piss-poor-designed back of the CT.
- inhumantsar 2y ago
  have you seen the photos? this wasn't a box of basic fireworks and a can of gas. the bed was loaded with a huge amount of camp fuel and large fireworks mortars. considering that it was rented in Colorado, parked right in front of the trump hotel lobby with the trump hotel sign right above it, and exploded right after, the simplest explanation seems to be that it was intentional and that causing a scene was more important to them than killing.
  - magic_smoke_ee 2y ago
    Still not proof of terrorism. That's only evidence of bad judgement.
    - ivewonyoung 2y ago
      What about the "detonation system controlled by the driver in the Tesla Cybertruck" as reported by the FBI? Is that bad judgement too? I swear to God the mental gymnastics to blame Tesla...
      - magic_smoke_ee 2y ago
        > What about the "detonation system controlled by the driver in the Tesla Cybertruck" as reported by the FBI? That's not a fact. I just watched a reputable report the morning after that also reiterated the FBI's position that there was still uncertainty if it was intentional or not.
        ivewonyoung 2y ago
defrost 2y ago
In the absence of a manifesto it's possible the driver intended a celebration of Trump and Musk by launching fireworks from a CyberTruck in front of a Trump property. That would make it a deliberate act of r/FloridaMan stupidity.
afavour 2y ago
The early, easily confirmed facts were that the car exploded and caught fire. Same with New Orleans, the headlines said “car struck pedestrians” rather than attributing it to a deliberate act. I don’t know if the police themselves have actually called this a deliberate act yet. Yes, the evidence looks pretty overwhelming but it might be that media orgs don’t want to jump the gun on a highly sensitive topic.
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  The media has no problem jumping the gun on sensitive topics if it suits their preferred politics.
  - RonaldDump 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - defrost 2y ago
      Nonsense. I don't recall a single headline of the form Starving mentally ill minority person eats cat as last resort The usual media outlets jumped straight on the illegal immigrants eating cats narrative with nary a shred of solid evidence. If you're not seeing headlines vilifying non white and non christian suspects on the slightest whiff of wrongdoing then you're either fully acclimatized or commenting in bad faith. The 22 day old nom de guerre strongly suggests the latter.
      - ivewonyoung 2y ago
        They simply don't cover the news instead of writing headlines like that. Like when the woman in the NYC subway was set on fire, many major news networks simply didn't report it.
        selimthegrim 2y ago
        I certainly saw quite a bit about it and not just on Fox.

dwood_dev 2y ago

If anything, it seems to have done a decent job of redirecting the explosion upwards.

palmfacehn 2y ago
>"The evil knuckleheads picked the wrong vehicle for a terrorist attack. Cybertruck actually contained the explosion and directed the blast upwards. Not even the glass doors of the lobby were broken." https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874614362612326761 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1874614362612326761
- mmooss 2y ago
  What do you think of that -- do you believe it? Why is it important? Why do you think Musk posted it? ?
  - dole 2y ago
    Easy way to save some Cybertruck face and Tesla stock price. “Happy accidents.”
  - palmfacehn 2y ago
    From the reports I've read, the combustible materials consisted of large fireworks and some unpressurized fuel canisters. I'm not an expert in this field, but it seems that these materials, in this configuration, wouldn't create a large explosion outside of a Michael Bay movie. If placed correctly, they could have damaged the facade of the building via heat. If they had put them in a common 50 gal. steel drum with no lid, I suspect the results would have been much the same. Why did he post it? Why did the attacker choose a CyberTruck? If we are going to open up on speculation, then it seems reasonable to suspect that the attacker chose a CyberTruck because of Elon's relationship to the incoming administration. In response it makes sense that Elon would highlight the inept execution. Some partisan responses to the health insurer's assassination have been positive. Even comments on this site seem to be rationalizing the violence. Typically, decent people would condemn terrorist violence as irrational escalation. Highlighting the inept execution and poor planning illustrates the irrationality of the attacker. If Elon can subtly parlay it into some of the safety marketing or durability of his vehicle, that's an extra win on top. Compare the narratives: "Luigi was a smart guy and master planner who read books. Let's plug the author." "It didn't even break the glass"
    - cmurf 2y ago
      Trump, Musk, the Speaker, and Fox News are running with both Vegas and New Orleans events being the result of open borders, despite both perpetrators being American citizens. Is it fair to say this kind of distortion is typical MAGA? Typical Republican? Is it decent? Why lie? Fox initially ran with a story the NOLA truck illegally crossed the border with Mexico. This disinformation is intentional, no one is this incompetent. They know their demographic wants to be lied to. Disinformation is the product they're selling. Same with the politicians.
      - palmfacehn 2y ago
        This is a bit of a tangent. I haven't reviewed all of the claims you outlined. Turtles all the way down. I would say it typifies media across the board. There's also the meta-distortion where partisan sources misrepresent the statements of opposing partisans to present them as dishonest.
        mmooss 2y ago
        > I would say it typifies media across the board. It depends on what you mean by 'media', but I think among top-level news media, Fox and ideological fellow travelers embrace disinformation and produce it at orders of magnitude higher volumes, while others make occasional errors.

_giorgio_ 2y ago

Bomb placed right in front of the Trump tower. That's the right title. Do you remember when, for hours and days, CNN and other news sources refused to acknowledge the assassination attempt, saying that he was hit by something not directed at him? https://apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jackson-christopher-wray-cb780b9d1a078f0be4191682e75101cf https://apnews.com/article/trump-bullet-shrapnel-ronny-jacks...

palmfacehn 2y ago
It was one of his hotels in Las Vegas. The Trump Tower is in NYC, but your point is valid none the less.
afavour 2y ago
> refused to acknowledge the assassination attempt, saying that he was hit by something not directed at him? That’s usually what happens when news orgs only report confirmed information, e.g. “Trump hit by projectile”. It feels misleading but it’s accurate at the time. If you’re literally saying they were specifically stating he was hit by something “not directed at him” (as opposed to “not confirmed whether it was directed at him”) I’d be fascinated to see some examples.
- nofunsir 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
NewJazz 2y ago
No, I don't remember that. Maybe you should cite your source. I seem to remember every major news outlet labeling the event as an assassination attempt, some noted that the shooter mentioned Epstein on social media.
- wakawaka28 2y ago

magic_smoke_ee 2y ago

Apply Hanlon's razor. There was zero shrapnel and most of the force blew upwards. It definitely could've been a really poor use of judgement of storing flammable gasoline and fireworks in a confined space that then found an ignition source in the piss-poor-designed back of the CT.

inhumantsar 2y ago
have you seen the photos? this wasn't a box of basic fireworks and a can of gas. the bed was loaded with a huge amount of camp fuel and large fireworks mortars. considering that it was rented in Colorado, parked right in front of the trump hotel lobby with the trump hotel sign right above it, and exploded right after, the simplest explanation seems to be that it was intentional and that causing a scene was more important to them than killing.
- magic_smoke_ee 2y ago
  Still not proof of terrorism. That's only evidence of bad judgement.
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    What about the "detonation system controlled by the driver in the Tesla Cybertruck" as reported by the FBI? Is that bad judgement too? I swear to God the mental gymnastics to blame Tesla...
    - magic_smoke_ee 2y ago
      > What about the "detonation system controlled by the driver in the Tesla Cybertruck" as reported by the FBI? That's not a fact. I just watched a reputable report the morning after that also reiterated the FBI's position that there was still uncertainty if it was intentional or not.
      - ivewonyoung 2y ago

defrost 2y ago

In the absence of a manifesto it's possible the driver intended a celebration of Trump and Musk by launching fireworks from a CyberTruck in front of a Trump property. That would make it a deliberate act of r/FloridaMan stupidity.

afavour 2y ago

The early, easily confirmed facts were that the car exploded and caught fire. Same with New Orleans, the headlines said “car struck pedestrians” rather than attributing it to a deliberate act. I don’t know if the police themselves have actually called this a deliberate act yet. Yes, the evidence looks pretty overwhelming but it might be that media orgs don’t want to jump the gun on a highly sensitive topic.

wakawaka28 2y ago
The media has no problem jumping the gun on sensitive topics if it suits their preferred politics.
- RonaldDump 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - defrost 2y ago
    Nonsense. I don't recall a single headline of the form Starving mentally ill minority person eats cat as last resort The usual media outlets jumped straight on the illegal immigrants eating cats narrative with nary a shred of solid evidence. If you're not seeing headlines vilifying non white and non christian suspects on the slightest whiff of wrongdoing then you're either fully acclimatized or commenting in bad faith. The 22 day old nom de guerre strongly suggests the latter.
    - ivewonyoung 2y ago
      They simply don't cover the news instead of writing headlines like that. Like when the woman in the NYC subway was set on fire, many major news networks simply didn't report it.
      - selimthegrim 2y ago
        I certainly saw quite a bit about it and not just on Fox.