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SRE who deals with some .Net stuff that uses MSSQL but is converting to MySQL. so I feel somewhat qualified to talk about MSSQL. TL;DR: Nothing interesting goin

SRE who deals with some .Net stuff that uses MSSQL but is converting to MySQL. so I feel somewhat qualified to talk about MSSQL. TL;DR: Nothing interesting going on. There is nothing to talk about here. It's boring database engine that powers boring business applications. It's pretty efficient and can scale vertically pretty well. With state of modern hardware, that vertical limit is high enough most people won't encounter it. It's also going the way of Windows Server which is to say, it's being sold but not a ton of work is being done on it. Companies that are still invested in it are likely because they don't care about cost ultimately or cost of switching is too high to greenlight the switch. Anyone who does care about cost like my current company has switched to OSS solutions like PostGres/MySQL/$RandomNoSQLOSSOption. My company switched away when turned into SaaS business and those MSSQL server costs ate into bottom line. This has been happening throughout the ecosystem. Proget which is THE solution for .Net Artifacts is switching to PostGres: https://blog.inedo.com/inedo/so-long-sql-server-thanks-for-all-the-fetch/ https://blog.inedo.com/inedo/so-long-sql-server-thanks-for-a... Also, I saw this article from Brent Ozar, who I see as MSSQL smart person, which basically said if you have the option, just go with PostGres: https://www.brentozar.com/archive/2023/11/the-real-problem-with-sql-servers-licensing-costs/ https://www.brentozar.com/archive/2023/11/the-real-problem-w... It's also worth noting that Microsoft even bought PostGres scaling solution called Citus so they read the writing on the wall: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2019/01/24/microsoft-acquires-citus-data-re-affirming-its-commitment-to-open-source-and-accelerating-azure-postgresql-performance-and-scale/ https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2019/01/24/microsoft-acquir...

rawgabbit 2y ago
I was a big proponent of MSSQL. It is still a good product but I see Microsoft constantly fumbling with new OLAP tools. It is a shame but it seems Microsoft is abandoning MSSQL.
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  If it's any consolation, half of the new cloud OLAP tools are basically still MSSQL
mbreese 2y ago
> It's boring database engine that powers boring business applications I'm taking that as a positive thing... it's boring and does its job with little fanfare. That's pretty much what I want out of a RDBMS. So long as it is "fast-enough" with enough features for the applications that use it, that seems like a good place for an RDBMS to be. One could still argue about Windows and licensing fees, but from a technical point of view, for business customers, boring isn't necessarily a bad thing.
- FridgeSeal 2y ago
  There’s other boring databases that also reliably fill that job, and they also cost far less. It can also be a bit of a pain outside the C# ecosystem, whereas every language ever has nice postgres drivers that don’t require us to download arms setup ODBC. It runs on Linux as of a few years ago, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if many people didn’t realise that.
  - stackskipton 2y ago
    I’ve run into MSSQL on Linux. Most DBAs know but their entire ecosystem is Windows Server so what’s another Windows Server is their thinking.
rplnt 2y ago
> It's boring database engine that powers boring business applications. FWIW, it also powered the most popular (in terms of player base) MMORPG before WoW took over. And I wouldn't be surprised to find it in aviation, railways, powerplants, grid control, etc...
- Foobar8568 2y ago
  Before wow , there was either lineage, and then EverQuest. I guess it was Lineage as Korean used mainly MSFT softwares?
  - rplnt 2y ago
    Looking at some subscription charts I was able to quickly find now I see I made a mistake. I was thinking of Lineage 2 using mssql, while it was Lineage (1) that was the major one. I do not know anything about its backend and it would be hard to assume considering how much older it is. 1. https://ics.uci.edu/~wscacchi/GameIndustry/MMOGChart-July2006.gif https://ics.uci.edu/~wscacchi/GameIndustry/MMOGChart-July200...
greggyb 2y ago
I'll probably come across as a shill here, but there is a lot going on with SQL Server, all included in your license (Standard Edition has limitations on scaling). Some of these things are merely passable, some are great, but it's all included. The key takeaway is that SQL Server is a full data platform, not just an RDBMS. - RDBMS: very solid, competitive in features - In-memory OLTP: (really a marketing name for a whole raft of algorithmic and architectural optimization) can support throughput that is an order of magnitude higher - OLAP: Columnstore index in RDBMS, can support pure DW style workload or OLAP on transactional data for near-real-time analytics - OLAP: SSAS: two different best-in-class OLAP engines: Multidimensional and Tabular for high-concurrency low-latency reporting/analytics query workloads - SSIS: passable only, but tightly integrated ETL tool; admittedly in maintenance mode - SSRS: dependable paginated / pixel-perfect reporting tool; similar to other offerings in this space - Native replication / HA / DR (one of the only things actually gated behind Enterprise) - Data virtualization: PolyBase If you're just looking for a standard RDBMS, then there's little to justify the price tag for SQL Server. If you want to get value for money, you take advantage of the tight integration of many features. There is value for having these things just work out of the box. How much value is up to you and your use cases.
- stackskipton 2y ago
  Yes, it has a ton going on but most of companies I've found using it are using primarily as RDBMS and thus MySQL/Postgres could replace it. Other stuff it did could be replaced by tools more geared towards specific function and most of time, at much lower cost. Licensing isn't cheap. For anyone wondering, before discount, it's 876/yr per core for Standard and 3288/yr per core for Enterprise. Also note that Standard is limited to 24 cores and 128GB of RAM, if you want to unlock more of that, you must move to Enterprise.
  - codeulike 2y ago
    Theres still an express version thats free to use but limits database to 10gig, for what its worth
  - greggyb 2y ago
emmelaich 2y ago
It's the Linux-isation of the db space. Once Linux was good enough for enterprise work, it massively reduced demand for Solaris/HP-UX/AIX/WindowsNT. Same thing is happening now to Postgres vs enterprisey DBs.

rawgabbit 2y ago

I was a big proponent of MSSQL. It is still a good product but I see Microsoft constantly fumbling with new OLAP tools. It is a shame but it seems Microsoft is abandoning MSSQL.

datadrivenangel 2y ago
If it's any consolation, half of the new cloud OLAP tools are basically still MSSQL

mbreese 2y ago

> It's boring database engine that powers boring business applications I'm taking that as a positive thing... it's boring and does its job with little fanfare. That's pretty much what I want out of a RDBMS. So long as it is "fast-enough" with enough features for the applications that use it, that seems like a good place for an RDBMS to be. One could still argue about Windows and licensing fees, but from a technical point of view, for business customers, boring isn't necessarily a bad thing.

FridgeSeal 2y ago
There’s other boring databases that also reliably fill that job, and they also cost far less. It can also be a bit of a pain outside the C# ecosystem, whereas every language ever has nice postgres drivers that don’t require us to download arms setup ODBC. It runs on Linux as of a few years ago, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if many people didn’t realise that.
- stackskipton 2y ago
  I’ve run into MSSQL on Linux. Most DBAs know but their entire ecosystem is Windows Server so what’s another Windows Server is their thinking.

rplnt 2y ago

> It's boring database engine that powers boring business applications. FWIW, it also powered the most popular (in terms of player base) MMORPG before WoW took over. And I wouldn't be surprised to find it in aviation, railways, powerplants, grid control, etc...

Foobar8568 2y ago
Before wow , there was either lineage, and then EverQuest. I guess it was Lineage as Korean used mainly MSFT softwares?
- rplnt 2y ago
  Looking at some subscription charts I was able to quickly find now I see I made a mistake. I was thinking of Lineage 2 using mssql, while it was Lineage (1) that was the major one. I do not know anything about its backend and it would be hard to assume considering how much older it is. 1. https://ics.uci.edu/~wscacchi/GameIndustry/MMOGChart-July2006.gif https://ics.uci.edu/~wscacchi/GameIndustry/MMOGChart-July200...

greggyb 2y ago

I'll probably come across as a shill here, but there is a lot going on with SQL Server, all included in your license (Standard Edition has limitations on scaling). Some of these things are merely passable, some are great, but it's all included. The key takeaway is that SQL Server is a full data platform, not just an RDBMS. - RDBMS: very solid, competitive in features - In-memory OLTP: (really a marketing name for a whole raft of algorithmic and architectural optimization) can support throughput that is an order of magnitude higher - OLAP: Columnstore index in RDBMS, can support pure DW style workload or OLAP on transactional data for near-real-time analytics - OLAP: SSAS: two different best-in-class OLAP engines: Multidimensional and Tabular for high-concurrency low-latency reporting/analytics query workloads - SSIS: passable only, but tightly integrated ETL tool; admittedly in maintenance mode - SSRS: dependable paginated / pixel-perfect reporting tool; similar to other offerings in this space - Native replication / HA / DR (one of the only things actually gated behind Enterprise) - Data virtualization: PolyBase If you're just looking for a standard RDBMS, then there's little to justify the price tag for SQL Server. If you want to get value for money, you take advantage of the tight integration of many features. There is value for having these things just work out of the box. How much value is up to you and your use cases.

stackskipton 2y ago
Yes, it has a ton going on but most of companies I've found using it are using primarily as RDBMS and thus MySQL/Postgres could replace it. Other stuff it did could be replaced by tools more geared towards specific function and most of time, at much lower cost. Licensing isn't cheap. For anyone wondering, before discount, it's 876/yr per core for Standard and 3288/yr per core for Enterprise. Also note that Standard is limited to 24 cores and 128GB of RAM, if you want to unlock more of that, you must move to Enterprise.
- codeulike 2y ago
  Theres still an express version thats free to use but limits database to 10gig, for what its worth
- greggyb 2y ago

emmelaich 2y ago

It's the Linux-isation of the db space. Once Linux was good enough for enterprise work, it massively reduced demand for Solaris/HP-UX/AIX/WindowsNT. Same thing is happening now to Postgres vs enterprisey DBs.