4 ms·

I was confused by the title because paper rejection is incredibly common in research, but that's the point and one of the goals is to fight imposter syndrome.

by jraph 2y ago

I was confused by the title because paper rejection is incredibly common in research, but that's the point and one of the goals is to fight imposter syndrome. It's a good initiative. Next step: everybody realizes that researchers are just random people like everybody. Maybe that could kill any remaining imposter syndrome. A rejection, although common, is quite tough during your PhD though, even ignoring the imposter syndrome, because in a short time, you are expected to have a bunch of accepted papers, in prestigious publications if possible. It feels like a rejection slows you down, and the clock is still ticking. If we could kill some of this nefarious system, that'd be good as well.

bisby 2y ago
It's especially important coming from someone like Terence Tao. If one of the best and brightest mathematicians out there can get a paper declined, then it can happen to literally anyone.
arrowsmith 2y ago
It’s noteworthy because it’s from Terence Tao, regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. If you read the full post he’s making the exact same point as you: it’s common and normal to get a paper rejected even if you’re Terence Tao, so don’t treat a rejection like the end of the world.
- vitus 2y ago
  > regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. Oh? Perelman comes to mind (as the only person who has been eligible to claim one of the Millennium prizes), although he is no longer actively practicing math AFAIK. Of Abel prize winners, Wiles proved Fermat's last theorem, and Szemeredi has a number of number-theoretic and combinatorial contributions. Recently deceased (past ~10 years) include figures such as John Nash, Grothendieck, and Conway. Tao is definitely one of the most well-known mathematicians, and he's still got several more decades of accomplishments ahead of him, but I don't know that he rises to "greatest living mathematician" at this point. That said, I do appreciate that he indicates that even his papers get rejected from time to time.
  - xanderlewis 2y ago
    Having been a child prodigy somehow gives one infamy (in the wider public consciousness) beyond anything one can achieve as an adult.
    - vanderZwan 2y ago
      He's a child prodigy who didn't burn out, that does make him quite rare.
      - xanderlewis 2y ago
        Well, true.
  - flocciput 2y ago
    To add to your list, you can also find Richard Borcherds teaching math on YouTube.
  - kenjackson 2y ago
    He said “regarded by many”, which I think is probably an accurate statement.
    - arrowsmith 2y ago
      I chose those words deliberately because I knew that if I phrased it too strongly then someone would reply to litigate the claim. Apparently I still phrased it too strongly, but hey, nothing's ever too pedantic for HN.
- jraph 2y ago
  > It’s noteworthy because it’s from Terence Tao, regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. I didn't know :-) > If you read the full post he’s making the exact same point as you Oh yeah, that's because I did read the full post and was summarizing. I should have made this clear.
- motorest 2y ago
  > It’s noteworthy because it’s from Terence Tao, regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. I think it's important to post a follow-up comment clarifying that papers are reviewed following a double blind peer review process. So who the author is shouldn't be a factor. Also, the author clarified that the paper was rejected on the grounds that the reviewer felt the topic wasn't a good fit for the journal. This has nothing to do with the quality of the paper, but uploading editorial guidelines on the subject. Trying to file a document in a wrong section and being gently nudged to file under another section hardly matches the definition of a rejection that leads authors to question their life choices.
  - ccppurcell 2y ago
    Just a quick point: double blind is not common for mathematics journals, at least in my area. Some TCS conferences have started it.
    - infogulch 2y ago
      In many fields there are only a handful of researchers that would submit a paper in a given specialty, and a couple of them are the reviewers. At some point blinding is just futile.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jonathan_landy 2y ago
I guess it is nice to know that he is also not perfect. But it’s still the case that his accomplishments outshine my own, so my imposter syndrome remains intact.
2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
terence tao is suffering from imposter syndrome? if anything, imposter syndrome is suffering from terence tao ... do you maybe not know who terence tao is?
- danielmarkbruce 2y ago
  It's terence tao trying to help others with imposter syndrome. It seems quite unlikely he himself would suffer from it...
  - NooneAtAll3 2y ago
    on the contrary, that's exactly what he states in comment discussion below the thread having higher reputation means higher responsibility not to crush someone with it in the sub-fields you aren't as proficient as
    - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
      yeah... he's telling a white lie of sorts...reread the comment. That doesn't sound like someone lacking self confidence. "the other members collectively ...". He's basically saying "get the world leading experts in some area of math that I'm sort of interested in in a room and between them they'll know more than I do myself". Lol. And, that's happened "several times". I'm sure he's a genuinely nice, friendly person trying to do the right thing. But he is also likely confident as hell and never felt like an imposter anywhere.
      - jraph 2y ago
        I don't think it's a white lie. Whether he has imposter syndrome is beside the point. It shows he has sympathy for his colleagues who might have it. Maybe he himself had it before which would let him understand even better what it is, and now he doesn't anymore, this would motivate him to make this point. The point he is making is all the motr convincing especially that he is seen as very good, whether he had imposter syndrome or not.
firesteelrain 2y ago
At my college, you only need one paper not many
- jraph 2y ago
  In mine, I don't think there was a hard requirement, but your PhD would be seen as weak with zero paper, and only one would be common enough I guess but still be seen a bit weak. It's not very important to grade, but it's important for what follows: your carrier, including getting a position.
TheRealPomax 2y ago
I'd counter the "like everybody": they're not. They spent a decade or more focused on honing their skills and deepening their knowledge to become experts in their subfield, and sometimes even entire fields. They are very much not random people like everybody in this context.

by jraph 2y ago

bisby 2y ago

It's especially important coming from someone like Terence Tao. If one of the best and brightest mathematicians out there can get a paper declined, then it can happen to literally anyone.

arrowsmith 2y ago

It’s noteworthy because it’s from Terence Tao, regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. If you read the full post he’s making the exact same point as you: it’s common and normal to get a paper rejected even if you’re Terence Tao, so don’t treat a rejection like the end of the world.

vitus 2y ago
> regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. Oh? Perelman comes to mind (as the only person who has been eligible to claim one of the Millennium prizes), although he is no longer actively practicing math AFAIK. Of Abel prize winners, Wiles proved Fermat's last theorem, and Szemeredi has a number of number-theoretic and combinatorial contributions. Recently deceased (past ~10 years) include figures such as John Nash, Grothendieck, and Conway. Tao is definitely one of the most well-known mathematicians, and he's still got several more decades of accomplishments ahead of him, but I don't know that he rises to "greatest living mathematician" at this point. That said, I do appreciate that he indicates that even his papers get rejected from time to time.
- xanderlewis 2y ago
  Having been a child prodigy somehow gives one infamy (in the wider public consciousness) beyond anything one can achieve as an adult.
  - vanderZwan 2y ago
    He's a child prodigy who didn't burn out, that does make him quite rare.
    - xanderlewis 2y ago
      Well, true.
- flocciput 2y ago
  To add to your list, you can also find Richard Borcherds teaching math on YouTube.
- kenjackson 2y ago
  He said “regarded by many”, which I think is probably an accurate statement.
  - arrowsmith 2y ago
    I chose those words deliberately because I knew that if I phrased it too strongly then someone would reply to litigate the claim. Apparently I still phrased it too strongly, but hey, nothing's ever too pedantic for HN.
jraph 2y ago
> It’s noteworthy because it’s from Terence Tao, regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. I didn't know :-) > If you read the full post he’s making the exact same point as you Oh yeah, that's because I did read the full post and was summarizing. I should have made this clear.
motorest 2y ago
> It’s noteworthy because it’s from Terence Tao, regarded by many as the world’s greatest living mathematician. I think it's important to post a follow-up comment clarifying that papers are reviewed following a double blind peer review process. So who the author is shouldn't be a factor. Also, the author clarified that the paper was rejected on the grounds that the reviewer felt the topic wasn't a good fit for the journal. This has nothing to do with the quality of the paper, but uploading editorial guidelines on the subject. Trying to file a document in a wrong section and being gently nudged to file under another section hardly matches the definition of a rejection that leads authors to question their life choices.
- ccppurcell 2y ago
  Just a quick point: double blind is not common for mathematics journals, at least in my area. Some TCS conferences have started it.
  - infogulch 2y ago
    In many fields there are only a handful of researchers that would submit a paper in a given specialty, and a couple of them are the reviewers. At some point blinding is just futile.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jonathan_landy 2y ago

I guess it is nice to know that he is also not perfect. But it’s still the case that his accomplishments outshine my own, so my imposter syndrome remains intact.

2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago

terence tao is suffering from imposter syndrome? if anything, imposter syndrome is suffering from terence tao ... do you maybe not know who terence tao is?

danielmarkbruce 2y ago
It's terence tao trying to help others with imposter syndrome. It seems quite unlikely he himself would suffer from it...
- NooneAtAll3 2y ago
  on the contrary, that's exactly what he states in comment discussion below the thread having higher reputation means higher responsibility not to crush someone with it in the sub-fields you aren't as proficient as
  - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
    yeah... he's telling a white lie of sorts...reread the comment. That doesn't sound like someone lacking self confidence. "the other members collectively ...". He's basically saying "get the world leading experts in some area of math that I'm sort of interested in in a room and between them they'll know more than I do myself". Lol. And, that's happened "several times". I'm sure he's a genuinely nice, friendly person trying to do the right thing. But he is also likely confident as hell and never felt like an imposter anywhere.
    - jraph 2y ago
      I don't think it's a white lie. Whether he has imposter syndrome is beside the point. It shows he has sympathy for his colleagues who might have it. Maybe he himself had it before which would let him understand even better what it is, and now he doesn't anymore, this would motivate him to make this point. The point he is making is all the motr convincing especially that he is seen as very good, whether he had imposter syndrome or not.

firesteelrain 2y ago

At my college, you only need one paper not many

jraph 2y ago
In mine, I don't think there was a hard requirement, but your PhD would be seen as weak with zero paper, and only one would be common enough I guess but still be seen a bit weak. It's not very important to grade, but it's important for what follows: your carrier, including getting a position.

TheRealPomax 2y ago

I'd counter the "like everybody": they're not. They spent a decade or more focused on honing their skills and deepening their knowledge to become experts in their subfield, and sometimes even entire fields. They are very much not random people like everybody in this context.