4 ms·

>> so far o1-mini has bodied every task people are saying LLMs can’t do in this thread > give me a query and i’ll ask it Here's a query similar to one that I

>> so far o1-mini has bodied every task people are saying LLMs can’t do in this thread > give me a query and i’ll ask it Here's a query similar to one that I gave to Google Gemini (version unknown), which failed miserably: ---query--- Steeleye Span's version of the old broadsheet ballad "The Victory" begins the final verse with these lines: Here's success unto the Victory / and crew of noble fame and glory to the captain / bold Nelson was his name What does the singer mean by these lines? ---end query--- Italicization is for the benefit of HN; I left that out of my prompt.

whimsicalism 2y ago
i'd prefer an easily verifiable question rather than one where we can always go "no that's not what they really meant" but someone else with o1-mini quota can respond
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  It's not a difficult or tricky question.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    i think it's a bit tricky, the surface meaning is extremely praiseworthy and some portion of readers might interpret as someone who has praise for Admiral Nelson but hates the press gangs. of course, it is a sardonic, implicit critique of Admiral Nelson/the victory, etc. but i do think it is a bit subtle.
- mikeruiz 2y ago
  “They’re toasting Admiral Nelson’s ship (HMS Victory) and its valiant crew, hailing the ship’s successes and Nelson’s heroism. In other words, the singer is offering tribute—“success unto the Victory”—to the vessel and its famed sailors, and “glory to the captain” who led them, namely the celebrated Admiral Horatio Nelson.” …but to your point, no idea if the artist intended some more obscure reference. o1-pro was also able to produce a relatively complete version of original source, though, amusingly, referred to it as a ‘broadside’ rather than ‘broadsheet’. Appropriate given the context!
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    > no idea if the artist intended some more obscure reference. No, but the answer is obviously wrong. Very, very wrong. The lines are not praise. The song's view of the Victory, and of the battle of Trafalgar, is overwhelmingly negative. > o1-pro was also able to produce a relatively complete version of original source ...as should be clear, if you read the original source. (Or, heck, just the two lines following the ones in the question.) Being able to reproduce the source makes the error look that much worse. > though, amusingly, referred to it as a ‘broadside’ rather than ‘broadsheet’. Both terms are used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadside_ballad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadside_ballad : >> A broadside (also known as a broadsheet) is a single sheet of inexpensive paper printed on one side, often with a ballad, rhyme, news and sometimes with woodcut illustrations.
ted_dunning 2y ago
Hmm... Gemini (1.5 Flash) just aced that exact question for me: These lines celebrate the victory of the British ship HMS Victory, led by the famous Admiral Lord Nelson, in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. "Here's success unto the Victory": This line directly praises the ship itself, acknowledging its role in the successful battle. "and crew of noble fame": This recognizes the bravery and skill of the sailors who served aboard the Victory. "and glory to the captain": This line specifically honors Admiral Nelson, the captain of the Victory, for his leadership and strategic brilliance in the battle. "bold Nelson was his name": This emphasizes Nelson's courage and daring, which were legendary. The lines express admiration for the ship, its crew, and most importantly, Admiral Nelson, who became a national hero in Britain for his victory at Trafalgar.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  That's not acing the question. It's completely incorrect. What do you think the singer in "Friends in Low Places" meant in the toast he gave after crashing his ex-girlfriend's wedding? And I saw the surprise and the fear in his eyes when I took his glass of champagne and I toasted you, said "Honey, we may be through but you'll never hear me complain"
  - sdenton4 2y ago
    That requires knowing the song, beyond the words provided. Would you flunk an eighth grader for getting it wrong?
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      Well, the rest of the song helps, in that it specifies that (1) the toast upset the wedding, and (2) the singer responded to that by insulting "you", which is presumably one or more of the bride, the groom, and the guests. But I think specifying that the singer has crashed his ex-girlfriend's wedding is already enough that you deserve to fail if your answer is "he says he's not upset, so what he means is that he's not upset". It's not any kind of leap to guess that the bride's ex-boyfriend's toast might cause a scene at a wedding - that's why the bride's ex-boyfriends are never invited. (The question has already provided every word of the toast that appears in the song.) See also the sidethread comment by mikeruiz, noting that o1-pro reproduces the rest of the lyrics to The Victory, but gets the question wrong anyway.

whimsicalism 2y ago

i'd prefer an easily verifiable question rather than one where we can always go "no that's not what they really meant" but someone else with o1-mini quota can respond

thaumasiotes 2y ago
It's not a difficult or tricky question.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  i think it's a bit tricky, the surface meaning is extremely praiseworthy and some portion of readers might interpret as someone who has praise for Admiral Nelson but hates the press gangs. of course, it is a sardonic, implicit critique of Admiral Nelson/the victory, etc. but i do think it is a bit subtle.
mikeruiz 2y ago
“They’re toasting Admiral Nelson’s ship (HMS Victory) and its valiant crew, hailing the ship’s successes and Nelson’s heroism. In other words, the singer is offering tribute—“success unto the Victory”—to the vessel and its famed sailors, and “glory to the captain” who led them, namely the celebrated Admiral Horatio Nelson.” …but to your point, no idea if the artist intended some more obscure reference. o1-pro was also able to produce a relatively complete version of original source, though, amusingly, referred to it as a ‘broadside’ rather than ‘broadsheet’. Appropriate given the context!
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > no idea if the artist intended some more obscure reference. No, but the answer is obviously wrong. Very, very wrong. The lines are not praise. The song's view of the Victory, and of the battle of Trafalgar, is overwhelmingly negative. > o1-pro was also able to produce a relatively complete version of original source ...as should be clear, if you read the original source. (Or, heck, just the two lines following the ones in the question.) Being able to reproduce the source makes the error look that much worse. > though, amusingly, referred to it as a ‘broadside’ rather than ‘broadsheet’. Both terms are used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadside_ballad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadside_ballad : >> A broadside (also known as a broadsheet) is a single sheet of inexpensive paper printed on one side, often with a ballad, rhyme, news and sometimes with woodcut illustrations.

ted_dunning 2y ago

Hmm... Gemini (1.5 Flash) just aced that exact question for me: These lines celebrate the victory of the British ship HMS Victory, led by the famous Admiral Lord Nelson, in the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805. "Here's success unto the Victory": This line directly praises the ship itself, acknowledging its role in the successful battle. "and crew of noble fame": This recognizes the bravery and skill of the sailors who served aboard the Victory. "and glory to the captain": This line specifically honors Admiral Nelson, the captain of the Victory, for his leadership and strategic brilliance in the battle. "bold Nelson was his name": This emphasizes Nelson's courage and daring, which were legendary. The lines express admiration for the ship, its crew, and most importantly, Admiral Nelson, who became a national hero in Britain for his victory at Trafalgar.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
That's not acing the question. It's completely incorrect. What do you think the singer in "Friends in Low Places" meant in the toast he gave after crashing his ex-girlfriend's wedding? And I saw the surprise and the fear in his eyes when I took his glass of champagne and I toasted you, said "Honey, we may be through but you'll never hear me complain"
- sdenton4 2y ago
  That requires knowing the song, beyond the words provided. Would you flunk an eighth grader for getting it wrong?
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    Well, the rest of the song helps, in that it specifies that (1) the toast upset the wedding, and (2) the singer responded to that by insulting "you", which is presumably one or more of the bride, the groom, and the guests. But I think specifying that the singer has crashed his ex-girlfriend's wedding is already enough that you deserve to fail if your answer is "he says he's not upset, so what he means is that he's not upset". It's not any kind of leap to guess that the bride's ex-boyfriend's toast might cause a scene at a wedding - that's why the bride's ex-boyfriends are never invited. (The question has already provided every word of the toast that appears in the song.) See also the sidethread comment by mikeruiz, noting that o1-pro reproduces the rest of the lyrics to The Victory, but gets the question wrong anyway.