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I think one thing Andy misses about why people were pissed about Elastic and Redis but not as many for MongoDB and some other is their license and size of Cont

I think one thing Andy misses about why people were pissed about Elastic and Redis but not as many for MongoDB and some other is their license and size of Contributors Community. When original license is as restricted as AGPL it is unlikely there is much of embedded use... so less people are impacted in truly catastrophic way Also if there is no contributor community to speak of... who is going to do the fork ? I put some thoughts about it in my post about ScyllaDB https://peterzaitsev.com/thoughts-on-scylladb-license-change/ https://peterzaitsev.com/thoughts-on-scylladb-license-change...

tayo42 2y ago
> In the case of Redis, I can only think that people perceive Redis Ltd. as unfairly profiting off others' work since the company's founders were not the system's original creators. An analysis of Redis' source code repository also shows that a sizable percentage of contributions to the DBMS comes from outside the company He mentions this in "Andy’s Take" section btw
- PeterZaitsev 2y ago
  Yes. Not the license though.
rockwotj 2y ago
RE ScyllaDB, there will absolutely be no fork and it’s very unlikely they have ever had a meaningful contribution to Scylla OSS (which is not changing, just going to bit rot and the enterprise version which was closed source was moved to source available). The reasoning being the bar is very high for contributions. It’s C++ 20/23 without virtual memory and a userland cooperative thread per core scheduler (this is the underlying seastar framework). The skills needed to do anything meaningful here is very high and I don’t see the motivation behind it as I would expect people having feature requests would be customers, have an easier time extending Cassandra or the feature would be available in the Enterprise version.
- menaerus 2y ago
  > It’s C++ 20/23 without virtual memory Not sure what you mean by this? Virtual memory is implied by the CPU MMU and consequently OS kernel. Perhaps you meant they use a lot of custom memory allocation schemes? Otherwise, I agree that the bar is quite high since (1) the problem at hand is already too complex (scalable LSM), and (2) pretty much anything in the code is custom made, e.g. avoiding the OS kernel as much as possible. And they pay peanuts for the skills needed to do the job.
  - mike_hearn 2y ago
    Seastar runs everything in kernel mode.
    - menaerus 2y ago
      Makes no sense. Source?
      - rockwotj 2y ago
        I mean memory is completely allocated up front and fragmentation is something for application developers to deal with.
        menaerus 2y ago
        I occasionally read their blogs, and I haven't looked into the source for a while, but application developers having to deal with the OOM because one is using custom memory allocation policy that doesn't deal with or suffers from fragmention would be a strange design choice. jmalloc IME works really well.
    - rockwotj 2y ago
      It tries to bypass the kernel as much as possible. It runs in userspace.
      - 2y ago

tayo42 2y ago

> In the case of Redis, I can only think that people perceive Redis Ltd. as unfairly profiting off others' work since the company's founders were not the system's original creators. An analysis of Redis' source code repository also shows that a sizable percentage of contributions to the DBMS comes from outside the company He mentions this in "Andy’s Take" section btw

PeterZaitsev 2y ago
Yes. Not the license though.

rockwotj 2y ago

RE ScyllaDB, there will absolutely be no fork and it’s very unlikely they have ever had a meaningful contribution to Scylla OSS (which is not changing, just going to bit rot and the enterprise version which was closed source was moved to source available). The reasoning being the bar is very high for contributions. It’s C++ 20/23 without virtual memory and a userland cooperative thread per core scheduler (this is the underlying seastar framework). The skills needed to do anything meaningful here is very high and I don’t see the motivation behind it as I would expect people having feature requests would be customers, have an easier time extending Cassandra or the feature would be available in the Enterprise version.

menaerus 2y ago
> It’s C++ 20/23 without virtual memory Not sure what you mean by this? Virtual memory is implied by the CPU MMU and consequently OS kernel. Perhaps you meant they use a lot of custom memory allocation schemes? Otherwise, I agree that the bar is quite high since (1) the problem at hand is already too complex (scalable LSM), and (2) pretty much anything in the code is custom made, e.g. avoiding the OS kernel as much as possible. And they pay peanuts for the skills needed to do the job.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  Seastar runs everything in kernel mode.
  - menaerus 2y ago
    Makes no sense. Source?
    - rockwotj 2y ago
      I mean memory is completely allocated up front and fragmentation is something for application developers to deal with.
      - menaerus 2y ago
        I occasionally read their blogs, and I haven't looked into the source for a while, but application developers having to deal with the OOM because one is using custom memory allocation policy that doesn't deal with or suffers from fragmention would be a strange design choice. jmalloc IME works really well.
  - rockwotj 2y ago
    It tries to bypass the kernel as much as possible. It runs in userspace.
    - 2y ago