5 ms·

A. A. Milne's Winnie-the-Pooh as an accessible eBook

102 points by sohkamyung 2y ago

Amorymeltzer 2y ago
I did not know about the Marrakesh VIP Treaty <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrakesh_VIP_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrakesh_VIP_Treaty>, very cool: >The treaty allows for copyright exceptions to facilitate the creation of accessible versions of books and other copyrighted works for visually impaired persons. It sets a norm for countries ratifying the treaty to have a domestic copyright exception covering these activities and allowing for the import and export of such materials. It's been in force since 2016, the US joined over five years. I can't comment on the overall success, but seems like a rare gem, being a copyright law/treaty, international or otherwise, that is unabashedly good!
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Hence the internet archive keeping the copyrighted scans up for disabled screen readers.
- thih9 2y ago
  Could someone elaborate or give an example? What does the treaty mean in practice, i.e. what exactly does it change?
  - Amorymeltzer 2y ago
    Honestly, everything I've read feel a bit like regurgitating the same concepts and phrases. There's a bit more from TFA (TFToot?): >With work being done to implement the Marrakesh Treaty, national "authorized entities" are now able to share accessible versions of in-copyright works with each other internationally, but we don't have to wait for that in the case of works in the Public Domain. But the WIPO has some clearer stuff: >The Marrakesh Treaty addresses the “book famine” by requiring its contracting parties to adopt national law provisions that permit the reproduction, distribution and making available of published works in accessible formats – such as Braille - through limitations and exceptions to the rights of copyright rightholders. >It also provides for the exchange of these accessible format works across borders by organizations that serve the people who are blind, visually impaired, and print disabled. It will harmonize limitations and exceptions so that these organizations can operate across borders. Via <https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2016/article_0007.html https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2016/article_0007...>. See also a handy PDF they put out(<https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_marrakesh_overview.pdf https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_marrakesh_ove...>), or a note from IAPB (<https://www.iapb.org/news/ending-the-book-famine-the-marrakesh-treaty/ https://www.iapb.org/news/ending-the-book-famine-the-marrake...>): >The Marrakesh Treaty includes exceptions and limitations to national copyright law that will enable “authorised entities,” such as blind persons’ organisations and libraries, to more easily reproduce works into accessible formats for non-profit distribution. It also permits authorised entities to share accessible books and other printed materials across borders with other authorised entities. This allows accessible libraries to share their materials with other organisations, which is essential for many developing countries where organisations that serve the blind are often woefully under-resourced.
- heresie-dabord 2y ago
  "Just a moment, Pooh Bear!" cried Owl. "You can't just rush ahead without IP lawyers and make things that are free of DRM!" "Oh, bother!" replied Pooh.
robin_reala 2y ago
Great work! I did a production of Beatrix Potter’s stories with full alt text a while back for Standard Ebooks:[1] it’s a labour of love, but worth it. [1] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/beatrix-potter/short-fiction https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/beatrix-potter/short-ficti...
- everybodyknows 2y ago
  An enormous amount of data there -- for those of us curious about your process, can we get a sense of it by reviewing the GitHub commits?
  - robin_reala 2y ago
    Probably not, it’s one commit per book. So here’s the commit that added images and alt text for “Flopsy Bunnies” for example: https://github.com/standardebooks/beatrix-potter_short-fiction/commit/136bb7b6cb7c391c714bfe806f88eb3183dfc401 https://github.com/standardebooks/beatrix-potter_short-ficti... But broadly, it’s a case of exposing the information a reader would be interested in, in a way that’s aligned with both the context and style. So if you look in that commit you’ll see for example a couple of alt texts: Thomasina Tittlemouse sniffs at a jam pot on which a black fly is sitting. Behind her lie a couple of sleeping bunnies on the grass. Benjamin Bunnie wakes up and pulls the paper bag up to look out at Thomasina Tittlemouse, who is now standing on the jam pot. The two images are in sequence and illustrate a short scene, so the alt text reflects the reader’s expected understanding at that point.
WillAdams 2y ago
This is an aspect of something which I wish would be more acknowledged and investigated: >How can the electronic representation of books be made more rich and featureful? Some notable examples: - https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.html https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.htm... - https://www.motionmountain.net/ https://www.motionmountain.net/ - The Elements by Theodore Gray https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-elements-by-theodore-gray/id364147847 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-elements-by-theodore-gray/... - the "Living Books" series: https://wanderfulstorybooks.com/ https://wanderfulstorybooks.com/ Unfortunately vanished (anyone have an archive? was the wonderful _Bembo's Zoo_ https://www.devicq.com/bembo-zoo/ https://www.devicq.com/bembo-zoo/ and https://engagetheirminds.com/2012/04/05/bembos-zoo/ https://engagetheirminds.com/2012/04/05/bembos-zoo/ I'd be very glad of other examples.
calibas 2y ago
I accidentally opened the EPUB3 file in 7Zip, then realized you can just decompress the archive and open the .xhtml files in any standard web browser. Seems like it would be fairly simple to have web browsers support EPUB3.
- notpushkin 2y ago
  Yeah, I think EPUB was always basically a ZIP archive of a bunch of XHTMLs with some metadata.
- anonymfus 2y ago
  Pre-Chromium Microsoft Edge did until August 2019. https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-edge-will-no-longer-support-epub-file-format-e-books https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-edge-will-no-longer... (link found via Wikipedia article on "Microsoft Edge Legacy")
  - WorldMaker 2y ago
    The Edge team also briefly had a standalone Windows 8/10 app called "Reader" that supported EPUB, PDF, and a couple other similar formats without the rest of the browser UI, but was just purely an embed of Edge (Spartan).
wglass 2y ago
Very nice. I note that in some ways the pictures really contribute to the story. For example, see the story on Eeyore's tail missing. The clue is that the picture shows the tail hanging as a cord to ring the doorbell. The alt text conveys this nicely by saying: In this drawing, Pooh is back outside Owl's front door, with Owl standing in the doorway. Pooh is looking at the bell-rope, which ends in a tuft of hair. I'm not sure if this could truly be automated, as the description of the picture needs to fit the context of the story.
divbzero 2y ago
This is very nice. I have been using the version available in Apple Books: https://books.apple.com/us/book/winnie-the-pooh/id6444759294 https://books.apple.com/us/book/winnie-the-pooh/id6444759294 But the Apple Books version does not include the original illustrations, let alone accessible alt text.
throw4847285 2y ago
Those E. H. Shepard illustrations are truly spectacular. They remind me a lot of the original Peggy Fortnum Paddington art. That kind of sketchy black and white art can't sustain a big multimedia franchise, but I find it so much more evocative.

102 points by sohkamyung 2y ago

I did not know about the Marrakesh VIP Treaty <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrakesh_VIP_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marrakesh_VIP_Treaty>, very cool: >The treaty allows for copyright exceptions to facilitate the creation of accessible versions of books and other copyrighted works for visually impaired persons. It sets a norm for countries ratifying the treaty to have a domestic copyright exception covering these activities and allowing for the import and export of such materials. It's been in force since 2016, the US joined over five years. I can't comment on the overall success, but seems like a rare gem, being a copyright law/treaty, international or otherwise, that is unabashedly good!

selimthegrim 2y ago
Hence the internet archive keeping the copyrighted scans up for disabled screen readers.
thih9 2y ago
Could someone elaborate or give an example? What does the treaty mean in practice, i.e. what exactly does it change?
- Amorymeltzer 2y ago
  Honestly, everything I've read feel a bit like regurgitating the same concepts and phrases. There's a bit more from TFA (TFToot?): >With work being done to implement the Marrakesh Treaty, national "authorized entities" are now able to share accessible versions of in-copyright works with each other internationally, but we don't have to wait for that in the case of works in the Public Domain. But the WIPO has some clearer stuff: >The Marrakesh Treaty addresses the “book famine” by requiring its contracting parties to adopt national law provisions that permit the reproduction, distribution and making available of published works in accessible formats – such as Braille - through limitations and exceptions to the rights of copyright rightholders. >It also provides for the exchange of these accessible format works across borders by organizations that serve the people who are blind, visually impaired, and print disabled. It will harmonize limitations and exceptions so that these organizations can operate across borders. Via <https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2016/article_0007.html https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2016/article_0007...>. See also a handy PDF they put out(<https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_marrakesh_overview.pdf https://www.wipo.int/edocs/pubdocs/en/wipo_pub_marrakesh_ove...>), or a note from IAPB (<https://www.iapb.org/news/ending-the-book-famine-the-marrakesh-treaty/ https://www.iapb.org/news/ending-the-book-famine-the-marrake...>): >The Marrakesh Treaty includes exceptions and limitations to national copyright law that will enable “authorised entities,” such as blind persons’ organisations and libraries, to more easily reproduce works into accessible formats for non-profit distribution. It also permits authorised entities to share accessible books and other printed materials across borders with other authorised entities. This allows accessible libraries to share their materials with other organisations, which is essential for many developing countries where organisations that serve the blind are often woefully under-resourced.
heresie-dabord 2y ago
"Just a moment, Pooh Bear!" cried Owl. "You can't just rush ahead without IP lawyers and make things that are free of DRM!" "Oh, bother!" replied Pooh.

robin_reala 2y ago

Great work! I did a production of Beatrix Potter’s stories with full alt text a while back for Standard Ebooks:[1] it’s a labour of love, but worth it. [1] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/beatrix-potter/short-fiction https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/beatrix-potter/short-ficti...

everybodyknows 2y ago
An enormous amount of data there -- for those of us curious about your process, can we get a sense of it by reviewing the GitHub commits?
- robin_reala 2y ago
  Probably not, it’s one commit per book. So here’s the commit that added images and alt text for “Flopsy Bunnies” for example: https://github.com/standardebooks/beatrix-potter_short-fiction/commit/136bb7b6cb7c391c714bfe806f88eb3183dfc401 https://github.com/standardebooks/beatrix-potter_short-ficti... But broadly, it’s a case of exposing the information a reader would be interested in, in a way that’s aligned with both the context and style. So if you look in that commit you’ll see for example a couple of alt texts: Thomasina Tittlemouse sniffs at a jam pot on which a black fly is sitting. Behind her lie a couple of sleeping bunnies on the grass. Benjamin Bunnie wakes up and pulls the paper bag up to look out at Thomasina Tittlemouse, who is now standing on the jam pot. The two images are in sequence and illustrate a short scene, so the alt text reflects the reader’s expected understanding at that point.

WillAdams 2y ago

This is an aspect of something which I wish would be more acknowledged and investigated: >How can the electronic representation of books be made more rich and featureful? Some notable examples: - https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.html https://mathcs.clarku.edu/~djoyce/java/elements/elements.htm... - https://www.motionmountain.net/ https://www.motionmountain.net/ - The Elements by Theodore Gray https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-elements-by-theodore-gray/id364147847 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-elements-by-theodore-gray/... - the "Living Books" series: https://wanderfulstorybooks.com/ https://wanderfulstorybooks.com/ Unfortunately vanished (anyone have an archive? was the wonderful _Bembo's Zoo_ https://www.devicq.com/bembo-zoo/ https://www.devicq.com/bembo-zoo/ and https://engagetheirminds.com/2012/04/05/bembos-zoo/ https://engagetheirminds.com/2012/04/05/bembos-zoo/ I'd be very glad of other examples.

calibas 2y ago

I accidentally opened the EPUB3 file in 7Zip, then realized you can just decompress the archive and open the .xhtml files in any standard web browser. Seems like it would be fairly simple to have web browsers support EPUB3.

notpushkin 2y ago
Yeah, I think EPUB was always basically a ZIP archive of a bunch of XHTMLs with some metadata.
anonymfus 2y ago
Pre-Chromium Microsoft Edge did until August 2019. https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-edge-will-no-longer-support-epub-file-format-e-books https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-edge-will-no-longer... (link found via Wikipedia article on "Microsoft Edge Legacy")
- WorldMaker 2y ago
  The Edge team also briefly had a standalone Windows 8/10 app called "Reader" that supported EPUB, PDF, and a couple other similar formats without the rest of the browser UI, but was just purely an embed of Edge (Spartan).

wglass 2y ago

Very nice. I note that in some ways the pictures really contribute to the story. For example, see the story on Eeyore's tail missing. The clue is that the picture shows the tail hanging as a cord to ring the doorbell. The alt text conveys this nicely by saying: In this drawing, Pooh is back outside Owl's front door, with Owl standing in the doorway. Pooh is looking at the bell-rope, which ends in a tuft of hair. I'm not sure if this could truly be automated, as the description of the picture needs to fit the context of the story.

divbzero 2y ago

This is very nice. I have been using the version available in Apple Books: https://books.apple.com/us/book/winnie-the-pooh/id6444759294 https://books.apple.com/us/book/winnie-the-pooh/id6444759294 But the Apple Books version does not include the original illustrations, let alone accessible alt text.

throw4847285 2y ago

Those E. H. Shepard illustrations are truly spectacular. They remind me a lot of the original Peggy Fortnum Paddington art. That kind of sketchy black and white art can't sustain a big multimedia franchise, but I find it so much more evocative.