4 ms·

I wouldn’t go so far as to call him a shitbird (with all respect to Mr Lahey) but it seems to be a moot point given that these collections can be digitized and

I wouldn’t go so far as to call him a shitbird (with all respect to Mr Lahey) but it seems to be a moot point given that these collections can be digitized and indexed, opening them up to far more people than a few hundred thousand physical copies would have, especially for researchers who need to search vast collections. Indian universities (and the American ones with the collections) should fund a full digitization program. It’s not like the collections are closed to researchers and all of the money for the purchases went right back to the Indian economy.

solalf 2y ago
I believe the term is appropriate. Not only would the books have mostly disappeared due to local conditions, they can indeed be, and often are, digitized. Instead, we have a professor who seems to feel obligated to gaslight the US and portray it as “colonialist” even in the face of incredible outcomes of public policy. Millions of Indians escaped starvation thanks to this policy and an astounding body of knowledge survived and was consequently studied, helping elevate Indian culture in academic circles. But no matter, this created “knowledge gaps”.
- duskwuff 2y ago
  The conclusion that this "created knowledge gaps" seems particularly inapt. If American universities had not purchased these particular books, they would have most likely been lost just like the rest of their respective print runs. The "knowledge gap" would have been even worse, as no one at all would have had access to those books.
  - solalf 2y ago
    Also mind you, this is coming from an academic. Yet there’s no proof being brought to the argument that this gap does exist and they’re not saying “may or might”, they’re making what appears to be a purely ideological statement.
    - duskwuff 2y ago
      There's certainly a hypothetical universe where American universities didn't buy these books, and they were instead acquired by Indian libraries which managed to preserve them. But that isn't our universe, and there's no clear means by which the US could brought it about.
- fuzztester 2y ago
  >Instead, we have a professor who seems to feel obligated to gaslight the US and portray it as “colonialist” even in the face of incredible outcomes of public policy. I'm not talking about this particular case right now, although I may comment separately about it a little later, but the US did have a colonial past. See: European_colonization_of_the_Americas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the... From that article, the 7th or so paragraph, highlighting is mine: >Violent conflicts arose during the beginning of this period as indigenous peoples fought to preserve their territorial integrity from increasing European colonizers and from hostile indigenous neighbors who were equipped with Eurasian technology. Conflict between the various European empires and the indigenous peoples was a leading dynamic in the Americas into the 1800s, although some parts of the continent gained their independence from Europe by then, countries such as the United States continued to fight against Native Americans and practiced settler colonialism. The United States for example practiced a settler colonial policy of Manifest Destiny and the Trail of Tears. And links from that paragraph: Settler_colonialism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism The graphic after the first paragraph there (labelled "Graphic depicting the loss of Native American land to U.S. settlers in the 19th century"), is, well, graphic. See all that blue area disappearing? Manifest destiny: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny Trail of Tears: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears Also see: Banana republic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic Also see: Philippines: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines Under the History section there, see this sub-section: Spanish and American colonial rule (1565–1934). A link from there: Philippine–American War: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_...
  - causality0 2y ago
    We're perfectly aware of this, just as we're aware a large part of the starvation the US was saving Indians from was due to decades of the British forcing them to grow cash crops instead of food. An American collection of Indian works is no more a "colonial library" than an American collection of Irish works or of Canadian works.

solalf 2y ago

I believe the term is appropriate. Not only would the books have mostly disappeared due to local conditions, they can indeed be, and often are, digitized. Instead, we have a professor who seems to feel obligated to gaslight the US and portray it as “colonialist” even in the face of incredible outcomes of public policy. Millions of Indians escaped starvation thanks to this policy and an astounding body of knowledge survived and was consequently studied, helping elevate Indian culture in academic circles. But no matter, this created “knowledge gaps”.

duskwuff 2y ago
The conclusion that this "created knowledge gaps" seems particularly inapt. If American universities had not purchased these particular books, they would have most likely been lost just like the rest of their respective print runs. The "knowledge gap" would have been even worse, as no one at all would have had access to those books.
- solalf 2y ago
  Also mind you, this is coming from an academic. Yet there’s no proof being brought to the argument that this gap does exist and they’re not saying “may or might”, they’re making what appears to be a purely ideological statement.
  - duskwuff 2y ago
    There's certainly a hypothetical universe where American universities didn't buy these books, and they were instead acquired by Indian libraries which managed to preserve them. But that isn't our universe, and there's no clear means by which the US could brought it about.
fuzztester 2y ago
>Instead, we have a professor who seems to feel obligated to gaslight the US and portray it as “colonialist” even in the face of incredible outcomes of public policy. I'm not talking about this particular case right now, although I may comment separately about it a little later, but the US did have a colonial past. See: European_colonization_of_the_Americas: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the... From that article, the 7th or so paragraph, highlighting is mine: >Violent conflicts arose during the beginning of this period as indigenous peoples fought to preserve their territorial integrity from increasing European colonizers and from hostile indigenous neighbors who were equipped with Eurasian technology. Conflict between the various European empires and the indigenous peoples was a leading dynamic in the Americas into the 1800s, although some parts of the continent gained their independence from Europe by then, countries such as the United States continued to fight against Native Americans and practiced settler colonialism. The United States for example practiced a settler colonial policy of Manifest Destiny and the Trail of Tears. And links from that paragraph: Settler_colonialism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settler_colonialism The graphic after the first paragraph there (labelled "Graphic depicting the loss of Native American land to U.S. settlers in the 19th century"), is, well, graphic. See all that blue area disappearing? Manifest destiny: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny Trail of Tears: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears Also see: Banana republic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic Also see: Philippines: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines Under the History section there, see this sub-section: Spanish and American colonial rule (1565–1934). A link from there: Philippine–American War: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_...
- causality0 2y ago
  We're perfectly aware of this, just as we're aware a large part of the starvation the US was saving Indians from was due to decades of the British forcing them to grow cash crops instead of food. An American collection of Indian works is no more a "colonial library" than an American collection of Irish works or of Canadian works.