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Every waste of money is not a Ponzi scheme.

ffsm8 2y ago
I agree, the core aspect of a ponzi scheme is that it redistributes the newly invested funds to previous investors, making it highly profitable to anyone joining early and incentivising early joiners to get new investors. This just doesn't hold true for open ai
- jacobgkau 2y ago
  Doesn't it hold true for investment in AI (or potentially any other industry that experiences a boom) in general? Anyone who bought in at the ground floor is now rich. Anyone who buys in now is incentivized to try and keep getting more people to buy in so their investment will give a return regardless of if actual value is being created.
  - dartos 2y ago
    If effect, kind of. The money being invested does not go directly to investors. It goes to the cost of R&D, which in turn increases the value of openai shares, then the early investors can sell those shares to realize those gains. The difference between that and a ponzi is that the investment creates value which is reflected in the share price. No value is created in a Ponzi scheme. The actual dollar worth of the value generated is what people speculate on.
    - zekica 2y ago
      Only a part of the value is created in OpenAI's stock valuation. Most of it is still a ponzi-like scheme.
      - dartos 2y ago
        I have no love for openai, but they did make the fastest growing product of all time. There’s value in being the ones to do that. I do agree it’s a very very thin line.
        CRConrad 2y ago
        > but they did make the fastest growing product of all time. There’s value in being the ones to do that. Aha: So if my future line of Covid Cancer Candy takes off even faster, there's "value" in that, too? What kind of value, exactly? Does the value of being "the fastest growing product of all time" not at all depend on what kind of product it is?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- CRConrad 2y ago
  Because "Open" AI keeps the newly invested funds only to themselves (with some scraps for employees), so early joiners don't (directly[1]) get any of the newly invested funds from later ones, you mean? Yeah, true, not exactly a Ponzi scheme: This has even fewer redeeming qualities. [1]: Only indirectly, by selling off their investment to that next sucker.
wslh 2y ago
Not every, but wasting money is one of the tricks of corruption.
DavidSJ 2y ago
> Every waste of money is not a Ponzi scheme. Using this as an opportunity to grind an axe (not your fault, cactusfrog!): I find it clearer when people write "not every X is a Y" than "every X is not a Y", which could be (and would be, literally) interpreted to mean the same thing as "no X is a Y".

I agree, the core aspect of a ponzi scheme is that it redistributes the newly invested funds to previous investors, making it highly profitable to anyone joining early and incentivising early joiners to get new investors. This just doesn't hold true for open ai

jacobgkau 2y ago
Doesn't it hold true for investment in AI (or potentially any other industry that experiences a boom) in general? Anyone who bought in at the ground floor is now rich. Anyone who buys in now is incentivized to try and keep getting more people to buy in so their investment will give a return regardless of if actual value is being created.
- dartos 2y ago
  If effect, kind of. The money being invested does not go directly to investors. It goes to the cost of R&D, which in turn increases the value of openai shares, then the early investors can sell those shares to realize those gains. The difference between that and a ponzi is that the investment creates value which is reflected in the share price. No value is created in a Ponzi scheme. The actual dollar worth of the value generated is what people speculate on.
  - zekica 2y ago
    Only a part of the value is created in OpenAI's stock valuation. Most of it is still a ponzi-like scheme.
    - dartos 2y ago
      I have no love for openai, but they did make the fastest growing product of all time. There’s value in being the ones to do that. I do agree it’s a very very thin line.
      - CRConrad 2y ago
        > but they did make the fastest growing product of all time. There’s value in being the ones to do that. Aha: So if my future line of Covid Cancer Candy takes off even faster, there's "value" in that, too? What kind of value, exactly? Does the value of being "the fastest growing product of all time" not at all depend on what kind of product it is?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
CRConrad 2y ago
Because "Open" AI keeps the newly invested funds only to themselves (with some scraps for employees), so early joiners don't (directly[1]) get any of the newly invested funds from later ones, you mean? Yeah, true, not exactly a Ponzi scheme: This has even fewer redeeming qualities. [1]: Only indirectly, by selling off their investment to that next sucker.

wslh 2y ago

Not every, but wasting money is one of the tricks of corruption.

DavidSJ 2y ago

> Every waste of money is not a Ponzi scheme. Using this as an opportunity to grind an axe (not your fault, cactusfrog!): I find it clearer when people write "not every X is a Y" than "every X is not a Y", which could be (and would be, literally) interpreted to mean the same thing as "no X is a Y".