3 ms·

Every place I've worked has required its employees to sign some form of non-disclosure agreement, it's pretty standard practice--once you're an employee. Prior

Every place I've worked has required its employees to sign some form of non-disclosure agreement, it's pretty standard practice--once you're an employee. Prior to that though, everyone who hired me was able to explain (without an NDA) the big picture of what they were doing. If people can't explain what they're trying to accomplish without legalese, I'd be a little leery. The anecdotal corollary to this stems from several friends who attended school at a different university. They had latest and greatest business ideas and would make their friends sign NDAs, for each new idea, before they'd even whisper what it was they're doing. To date and current knowledge, none of them have started their own company or actually pursued those grand visions hidden away by legalese. That being said, (FWIW IANAL), if the people actually have a built product or devised a demonstrable new process or possess some other physical IP (eg: book of math proofs they've devised proving worm hole travel) and you'd be working on it/with it/viewing it, sure an NDA might make sense. I.E. They actually have a physical asset to protect. If they're just spouting off they're next great business idea and won't even talk to you until you're wrapped in legalese, I'd take a second look before jumping in.

rmc 14y ago
"It's standard" is a lie often told to employees to weaken their bargaining position. The only time I've seen and NDA was for a client that was insane. NDAs are not standard. Negotiate harder.
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  Seriously? You think its standard for people to protect trade secrets out of the goodness of their hearts? I would not discuss a valuable invention with my dad without an NDA.
  - greyfade 14y ago
    I feel that if you need an NDA, more than likely, you're not the first person to come up with the idea, and chances are, someone else is already executing it. The NDA would just get in the way of getting the resources you need together quickly enough to execute before others. And if you wouldn't discuss it with your own father, I'd put forward that perhaps you have some deeper trust issues.
    - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
      Customer lists, marketing test results, sales breakdowns, password databases, personnel files, you name it. Everybody is put under NDA to maintain these secrets. Telling my dad about an invention without putting him under an NDA makes it unpatentable. It has nothing to do with trust. If you do not observe the proper legal forms, you are flushing IP down the toilet.
      - greyfade 14y ago
        I was speaking in the specific context of ideas. Clearly, sensitive data should be protected, and an NDA is a good legal control for that. But I don't believe that an idea is worthy of an NDA, and therefore that so-misnamed "IP" would be "flush[ed] down the toilet" just because you happened to discuss the topic with a family member. Rather, I believe that what matters is whether and how you implement the idea. Being first to market gives you the added security of fully understanding the idea and being able to improve it as you go along - while competitors are left behind trying to understand the idea. Execution, as they say, is everything. You don't need a government-granted monopoly to do that. (That said, I think the whole government-granted monopoly idea is fundamentally flawed.)
        jasomill 14y ago
        Except in the context of software development, specifically, it's not generally just "an idea." It's the sum total of all unpublished and unannounced information of unreleased products that you're being given access to as a developer. There may not even be any plans to file patents: you have to take affirmative steps to maintain trade secret protection, as well. But, among other things, trade secrets have to be reasonably specific, certainly more so than "everything you learn about our products in the course of employment", and, well, "secrets" to begin with (not merely "unannounced" or "unpublished"). Confidential business information like customer lists, on the other hand, tends to be protected even in the absence of a written agreement; a good contract lawyer can quickly pick out the potentially troubling bits of an employment-related contract from the mass of "mostly harmless" boilerplate that merely restates your obligations under various laws (often including amusingly obvious items like not stealing physical property from the company and returning company-owned equipment upon request). Finally, many companies have agreements with third parties that require measures to ensure employees and contractors given access to third-party confidential information (of various sorts) hold it in confidence.
  - adrr 14y ago
    Your idea isn't unique, there's probably 100 other people with exact same idea. No good dev or vc will ever sign an NDA unless money is being exchanged.
- caw 14y ago
  They are completely standard in corporations. Once you have hundreds or thousands of employees, NDAs are the way you work, because you just have too many trade secrets to risk. For individuals with ideas? I agree, they're non-standard.

rmc 14y ago

"It's standard" is a lie often told to employees to weaken their bargaining position. The only time I've seen and NDA was for a client that was insane. NDAs are not standard. Negotiate harder.

Daniel_Newby 14y ago
Seriously? You think its standard for people to protect trade secrets out of the goodness of their hearts? I would not discuss a valuable invention with my dad without an NDA.
- greyfade 14y ago
  I feel that if you need an NDA, more than likely, you're not the first person to come up with the idea, and chances are, someone else is already executing it. The NDA would just get in the way of getting the resources you need together quickly enough to execute before others. And if you wouldn't discuss it with your own father, I'd put forward that perhaps you have some deeper trust issues.
  - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
    Customer lists, marketing test results, sales breakdowns, password databases, personnel files, you name it. Everybody is put under NDA to maintain these secrets. Telling my dad about an invention without putting him under an NDA makes it unpatentable. It has nothing to do with trust. If you do not observe the proper legal forms, you are flushing IP down the toilet.
    - greyfade 14y ago
      I was speaking in the specific context of ideas. Clearly, sensitive data should be protected, and an NDA is a good legal control for that. But I don't believe that an idea is worthy of an NDA, and therefore that so-misnamed "IP" would be "flush[ed] down the toilet" just because you happened to discuss the topic with a family member. Rather, I believe that what matters is whether and how you implement the idea. Being first to market gives you the added security of fully understanding the idea and being able to improve it as you go along - while competitors are left behind trying to understand the idea. Execution, as they say, is everything. You don't need a government-granted monopoly to do that. (That said, I think the whole government-granted monopoly idea is fundamentally flawed.)
      - jasomill 14y ago
        Except in the context of software development, specifically, it's not generally just "an idea." It's the sum total of all unpublished and unannounced information of unreleased products that you're being given access to as a developer. There may not even be any plans to file patents: you have to take affirmative steps to maintain trade secret protection, as well. But, among other things, trade secrets have to be reasonably specific, certainly more so than "everything you learn about our products in the course of employment", and, well, "secrets" to begin with (not merely "unannounced" or "unpublished"). Confidential business information like customer lists, on the other hand, tends to be protected even in the absence of a written agreement; a good contract lawyer can quickly pick out the potentially troubling bits of an employment-related contract from the mass of "mostly harmless" boilerplate that merely restates your obligations under various laws (often including amusingly obvious items like not stealing physical property from the company and returning company-owned equipment upon request). Finally, many companies have agreements with third parties that require measures to ensure employees and contractors given access to third-party confidential information (of various sorts) hold it in confidence.
- adrr 14y ago
  Your idea isn't unique, there's probably 100 other people with exact same idea. No good dev or vc will ever sign an NDA unless money is being exchanged.
caw 14y ago
They are completely standard in corporations. Once you have hundreds or thousands of employees, NDAs are the way you work, because you just have too many trade secrets to risk. For individuals with ideas? I agree, they're non-standard.