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> TSMC has a fascinating origin story: it was founded in 1985 by Morris Chang, who, after working in the US for Texas Instruments for more than 20 years, was en

by pm90 2y ago

> TSMC has a fascinating origin story: it was founded in 1985 by Morris Chang, who, after working in the US for Texas Instruments for more than 20 years, was enticed to go to Taiwan and help develop their high-tech industries as head of Taiwan’s Industrial Technology Research Institute (ITRI). How much of this was because of Racism? How many people like that, with the right technical, operational knowledge, experience and drive are prevented from transforming their American company because they don’t fit the mold of what Americans consider to be “leaders”.

alephnerd 2y ago
> How much of this was because of Racism From what I heard from peers from that era, not significantly. Taiwan's ITRI gave Morris Chang a blank check to implement his vision, which is something no ambitious person would turn down. Why become yet another rich but nameless CEO (who remembers Bucy at TI) when you can become the next Jack Kilby or William Shockley. China did the same thing for Liang Ming Song (former head of R&D at TSMC) at SMIC and India for Randhir Thakur (former head of foundry services at Intel and Applied Materials) at Tata Electronics. -------- Stop being so combative to OP - he asked a fair question about the bamboo ceiling. Looking at you Chollida1, next_xibalba, and Cumpiler69 (classy name /s)
- ayewo 2y ago
  > ... he asked a fair question about the bamboo ceiling. Apparently the concept of “bamboo ceiling” (similar to glass ceiling) has its own Wikipedia entry: TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling
- next_xibalba 2y ago
  It reads to me like it is you who are being combative by calling me out by (screen)name. It was quite reasonable to find the GP comment inexplicable given that 1) the article doesn't make any explicit or implicit mention of racism, 2) Chang rose to group VP at TI after having had his PhD sponsored by the same company [1], and 3) as you say, he was given an astounding offer by Taiwan. In other words, the leap to racism and racial discourse is quite a big one. Whether or not you view my comment as combative, I utterly reject your belief that you have the right to police my content or tone. This isn't Reddit. [1] https://engineering.stanford.edu/news/stanford-engineering-hero-morris-chang-honored-revolutionizing-chip-making https://engineering.stanford.edu/news/stanford-engineering-h...
chollida1 2y ago
Where did you hear that he left because of racism? He worked at the place fro more than 20 years and rose pretty darn high in the company. What specific claims of racism has he made?
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  None. It's the modern victimisation mentality.
- mlinhares 2y ago
  Morris said it himself that the top execs didn't think he was the "right person" for the job and this was the main reason he left, as he knew no amount of work or brilliance was going to make them change their minds as they clearly saw him as lesser.
  - magic_man 2y ago
    He wanted to be CEO and they said no. He went a different American company that said they would let him be CEO, but he realized he didn't want to be the CEO there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEh3ZgbvBrE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEh3ZgbvBrE
- foobarian 2y ago
  OP didn't make any claims, merely asked the question. I don't think we can ever know how well this exact person would have done with a different racial background.
- NonEUCitizen 2y ago
  "rose pretty darn high" but not high enough.
next_xibalba 2y ago
> Racism Huh? How did you make that leap? As others have pointed out, Chang was a bigwig at TI.
- etse 2y ago
  We don’t need to overstate racism, but “bigwig at TI” is a down leveling for Morris. Doesn’t seem right to limit greatness if it’s about race and not based on track record or other meritocratic signals.
- NonEUCitizen 2y ago
  not bigwig enough for morris.
newsclues 2y ago
It’s geopolitical not racial.
- etse 2y ago
  How? Morris didn’t get the job because he was born in the wrong country?
dgfitz 2y ago
Seems curious to me he would make decisions based on racism. There is a lot of xenophobia around those parts. Perhaps you’re incorrect?
- rbanffy 2y ago
  That's more or less the opposite of what was said - that he would be the victim of racism, perhaps not evident as such, but, maybe, misconceptions about his ability to perform due to his cultural background.
mytailorisrich 2y ago
He is a Chinese Nationalist and was recruited by the Nationalist government of the time (and remember that in 1985 the KMT still ruled in Taiwan with an iron fist under martial law) so it would not be that surprising if helping China develop and helping the Nationalist side against the Communists were significant contributing factors, not racism.
nobodyandproud 2y ago
Racism could have played a part, but I think he largely fell afoul of the Chicago school and MBAism; where engineering and deep business knowledge took a backseat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics). 1958: - "When Chang arrives at Texas Instruments (TI), he’s immediately impressed. Almost everyone is young, less than 40, and everyone works very hard, 50 hours a week or more." - "Some employees work so much that they bring cots into the office to sleep. And while there’s an obvious chain of command, there’s few trappings of status or hierarchy" - "...executives and workers eat together in the cafeteria, and high-level managers and production-line workers converse freely" - "...everyone at TI seems to be an expert on them (semi conductors)." 1972+: - "His immediate boss, Fred Bucy, has no semiconductor background" - "...the knowledge of the executive leadership is increasingly out of date (something they seem to be ignorant of)." - "Chang tries to convince leadership to start buying manufacturing equipment from outside vendors, which is more advanced and can achieve higher yields than TI’s internally-designed equipment, but he’s unsuccessful." - "He also fails to convince them to increase R&D spending, which Chang views as a short-sighted decision to prioritize short-term profits over long-term competitiveness."

by pm90 2y ago

alephnerd 2y ago

> How much of this was because of Racism From what I heard from peers from that era, not significantly. Taiwan's ITRI gave Morris Chang a blank check to implement his vision, which is something no ambitious person would turn down. Why become yet another rich but nameless CEO (who remembers Bucy at TI) when you can become the next Jack Kilby or William Shockley. China did the same thing for Liang Ming Song (former head of R&D at TSMC) at SMIC and India for Randhir Thakur (former head of foundry services at Intel and Applied Materials) at Tata Electronics. -------- Stop being so combative to OP - he asked a fair question about the bamboo ceiling. Looking at you Chollida1, next_xibalba, and Cumpiler69 (classy name /s)

ayewo 2y ago
> ... he asked a fair question about the bamboo ceiling. Apparently the concept of “bamboo ceiling” (similar to glass ceiling) has its own Wikipedia entry: TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_ceiling
next_xibalba 2y ago
It reads to me like it is you who are being combative by calling me out by (screen)name. It was quite reasonable to find the GP comment inexplicable given that 1) the article doesn't make any explicit or implicit mention of racism, 2) Chang rose to group VP at TI after having had his PhD sponsored by the same company [1], and 3) as you say, he was given an astounding offer by Taiwan. In other words, the leap to racism and racial discourse is quite a big one. Whether or not you view my comment as combative, I utterly reject your belief that you have the right to police my content or tone. This isn't Reddit. [1] https://engineering.stanford.edu/news/stanford-engineering-hero-morris-chang-honored-revolutionizing-chip-making https://engineering.stanford.edu/news/stanford-engineering-h...

chollida1 2y ago

Where did you hear that he left because of racism? He worked at the place fro more than 20 years and rose pretty darn high in the company. What specific claims of racism has he made?

Cumpiler69 2y ago
None. It's the modern victimisation mentality.
mlinhares 2y ago
Morris said it himself that the top execs didn't think he was the "right person" for the job and this was the main reason he left, as he knew no amount of work or brilliance was going to make them change their minds as they clearly saw him as lesser.
- magic_man 2y ago
  He wanted to be CEO and they said no. He went a different American company that said they would let him be CEO, but he realized he didn't want to be the CEO there. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEh3ZgbvBrE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wEh3ZgbvBrE
foobarian 2y ago
OP didn't make any claims, merely asked the question. I don't think we can ever know how well this exact person would have done with a different racial background.
NonEUCitizen 2y ago
"rose pretty darn high" but not high enough.

next_xibalba 2y ago

> Racism Huh? How did you make that leap? As others have pointed out, Chang was a bigwig at TI.

etse 2y ago
We don’t need to overstate racism, but “bigwig at TI” is a down leveling for Morris. Doesn’t seem right to limit greatness if it’s about race and not based on track record or other meritocratic signals.
NonEUCitizen 2y ago
not bigwig enough for morris.

newsclues 2y ago

It’s geopolitical not racial.

etse 2y ago
How? Morris didn’t get the job because he was born in the wrong country?

dgfitz 2y ago

Seems curious to me he would make decisions based on racism. There is a lot of xenophobia around those parts. Perhaps you’re incorrect?

rbanffy 2y ago
That's more or less the opposite of what was said - that he would be the victim of racism, perhaps not evident as such, but, maybe, misconceptions about his ability to perform due to his cultural background.

mytailorisrich 2y ago

He is a Chinese Nationalist and was recruited by the Nationalist government of the time (and remember that in 1985 the KMT still ruled in Taiwan with an iron fist under martial law) so it would not be that surprising if helping China develop and helping the Nationalist side against the Communists were significant contributing factors, not racism.

nobodyandproud 2y ago

Racism could have played a part, but I think he largely fell afoul of the Chicago school and MBAism; where engineering and deep business knowledge took a backseat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_of_economics). 1958: - "When Chang arrives at Texas Instruments (TI), he’s immediately impressed. Almost everyone is young, less than 40, and everyone works very hard, 50 hours a week or more." - "Some employees work so much that they bring cots into the office to sleep. And while there’s an obvious chain of command, there’s few trappings of status or hierarchy" - "...executives and workers eat together in the cafeteria, and high-level managers and production-line workers converse freely" - "...everyone at TI seems to be an expert on them (semi conductors)." 1972+: - "His immediate boss, Fred Bucy, has no semiconductor background" - "...the knowledge of the executive leadership is increasingly out of date (something they seem to be ignorant of)." - "Chang tries to convince leadership to start buying manufacturing equipment from outside vendors, which is more advanced and can achieve higher yields than TI’s internally-designed equipment, but he’s unsuccessful." - "He also fails to convince them to increase R&D spending, which Chang views as a short-sighted decision to prioritize short-term profits over long-term competitiveness."