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computers in the 80s only had a programming environment. You would drop basically directly into an interpreter. So Windows was an evolution for you. I know thi

by dijit 2y ago

computers in the 80s only had a programming environment. You would drop basically directly into an interpreter. So Windows was an evolution for you. I know this because my mother knew more how to program than I did, and I was the one with the passion for it and she was not. I also discussed this recently with a 47-year-old programmer. and we came to the same conclusion.

pjmlp 2y ago
Which computers thought? That wasn't true of CP/M, UNIX, VMS, Atari ST, Amiga, and many others. The reality was not the same as 8 bit home computers, and even on those you were limited by BASIC. Anything else like machine code, required the same learning effort. If you wanted to program, you either bought the programming tools, or pirated them, most of the time. Then you would need to buy books, computer magazines, or have the luck of local library with computing section, to actually learn how to use them.
- dijit 2y ago
  my mum had a Commodore 64, and before that a zx-spectrum The only programming book in my local library was COBOL. There was no included disk (it was missing) but in hindsight, it would likely not have worked on windows anyway. Your premise is that I knew what I was looking for, I kinda didn’t. My first proper exposure to programming anything was when college told me there was a thing called visual studio and .NET; its only later when installing linux that I found that many of the systems were written in interpreted languages and could be modified (yum, apt etc). That was extremely evolutionary for me.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    My premise is lack of curiosity, or do you think a small town in a country just out of 40 years of dictorship, and colonial wars, was flowing with computing information all over the place? Just having access to electronics was revolutionary. How would we even know what to look for, if it wasn't for our curiosity?
    - dijit 2y ago
      Are you arguing that your experience was helped by that? My premise is that Microsoft dominance took a few years off my programming journey- obviously I was curious and motivated because otherwise it would have been impossible to he where I am now without motivation and curiosity. I’m not entirely sure what your argument against this is other than that you potentially had it worse, which is not my point. Obviously motivation and curiosity are enough eventually, since we’re here. If Linux was the monoculture then it would have happened sooner for me, much sooner.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        My experience was helped by being curious, having the luck to track down people, that provided software and knowledge to learn in an offline world. UNIX was already around doing those days, and it surely wasn't that easier either, unless one was already at the university with enough budget for their computing infrastructure, or something like a bank, although in many countries most likely the most advanced stuff would be MS-DOS terminals connected via Novel Netware, running Clipper applications.

by dijit 2y ago

pjmlp 2y ago

Which computers thought? That wasn't true of CP/M, UNIX, VMS, Atari ST, Amiga, and many others. The reality was not the same as 8 bit home computers, and even on those you were limited by BASIC. Anything else like machine code, required the same learning effort. If you wanted to program, you either bought the programming tools, or pirated them, most of the time. Then you would need to buy books, computer magazines, or have the luck of local library with computing section, to actually learn how to use them.

dijit 2y ago
my mum had a Commodore 64, and before that a zx-spectrum The only programming book in my local library was COBOL. There was no included disk (it was missing) but in hindsight, it would likely not have worked on windows anyway. Your premise is that I knew what I was looking for, I kinda didn’t. My first proper exposure to programming anything was when college told me there was a thing called visual studio and .NET; its only later when installing linux that I found that many of the systems were written in interpreted languages and could be modified (yum, apt etc). That was extremely evolutionary for me.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  My premise is lack of curiosity, or do you think a small town in a country just out of 40 years of dictorship, and colonial wars, was flowing with computing information all over the place? Just having access to electronics was revolutionary. How would we even know what to look for, if it wasn't for our curiosity?
  - dijit 2y ago
    Are you arguing that your experience was helped by that? My premise is that Microsoft dominance took a few years off my programming journey- obviously I was curious and motivated because otherwise it would have been impossible to he where I am now without motivation and curiosity. I’m not entirely sure what your argument against this is other than that you potentially had it worse, which is not my point. Obviously motivation and curiosity are enough eventually, since we’re here. If Linux was the monoculture then it would have happened sooner for me, much sooner.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      My experience was helped by being curious, having the luck to track down people, that provided software and knowledge to learn in an offline world. UNIX was already around doing those days, and it surely wasn't that easier either, unless one was already at the university with enough budget for their computing infrastructure, or something like a bank, although in many countries most likely the most advanced stuff would be MS-DOS terminals connected via Novel Netware, running Clipper applications.