5 ms·

It's okay to code on nights and weekends

84 points by tejaskumar_ 2y ago

mgaunard 2y ago
The main reason not to code on evenings and weekends is that your employer will own everything you do and might not allow you to do whatever you want anyway.
- recursive 2y ago
  Get a better contract I guess.
- ghaff 2y ago
  That seems a gross overgeneralization--although you might want to check if it might be an issue.
- sarchertech 2y ago
  Depends on the state and the terms of employment you agreed to. I’ve never agreed to let an employer own anything outside of a very specific scope. And I’ve rarely had to turn down a job because of that constraint. Employers have almost always had a reasonable scope with respect to what they own to begin with or have been fine with changing the scope to be more reasonable.
- phito 2y ago
  What? Do you know you can code for yourself and not for your employer?
  - skirmish 2y ago
    I think the GP is referring to practices like [1] "Google claims copyright on employee side projects". [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823413
  - mgaunard 2y ago
    Any employer that pays decent money will claim ownership on everything you do even if you do not use any of the company's resources to do so.
    - phito 2y ago
      That's absurd.
fuzzfactor 2y ago
I think it's OK too. Not just coding but other types of technical work might benefit from not ruling this out, especially creative or innovative efforts. It can really make a difference depending on where you stand in a project environment. For me it was pretty easy to accept with cargo work where the ships come in at any time 24/7. Before I started my company I had already gone the extra mile like this for employers when it really made a difference. So I knew what I was getting into beforehand, I used to say you can run a company OK during business hours alone, but building a company may be the best use of nights & weekends depending on the circumstances. It took some time but doing it for my own self turned out better after all. It's not exactly a "super power" but good to have in your arsenal, plus in the right situation you could direct all your focus migrating toward having a 24/7 business that hardly ever requires "after-hours" effort after a while.
x0xrx 2y ago
A lot of people that are in tech because it’s a good job got pressured to make it their life. They reasonably pushed back, but the upshot was those of us that are passionate about programming as a hobby got pressured to not do it for fun. Both things are unreasonable. You shouldn’t have to program for fun to get a job. You can be good at it as a profession only. You also should be allowed to love it as a vocation or avocation. That doesn’t make you a sucker.
- threatofrain 2y ago
  As a hypothetical employer, should I be allowed to select for people who love programming because my internal metrics say they're an awesome fit? If so, then that's where the fundamental pressure is going to come from. So we can be on HN and sing "Oh, you do you!" but that won't relieve the fundamental source of pressure.
  - boh 2y ago
    You can hypothetically do whatever you want, no one in the real world is hiring you because you "love programming".
    - treve 2y ago
      I work at a small company and I do try select for people that create because of internal drive. It doesn't strictly have to be programming, but it tends to be. I agree not every company needs this. It could even be a negative for some type of work.
    - asdasdsddd 2y ago
      That's definitely not true. The whole side project meme was a big thing a while back because employers were specifically looking for people who liked programming so much they do it on the side.
      - boh 2y ago
        A "while back".
hnuser123456 2y ago
I have a non-coding day job and spend most of my time thinking about how to improve my projects when I get home, then code late into the night. Trying to get hired as a programmer somewhere, but part of me also worries it might exhaust me from coding on my own projects. If only I had enough spare time to build something worth monetizing while being able to pay the bills...
- andrepd 2y ago
  I definitely was much more exhausted and with much less energy to work on my projects after I got a real industry job, sadly.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    It's pretty natural if you do some activity all day for work, also doing it as a hobby is much harder.
- knallfrosch 2y ago
  When working on useful projects with autonomy for money, you're not really losing out.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > When working on useful projects with autonomy for money, you're not really losing out. You are if you're only making salary.
- crtez 2y ago
  I was originally worried that my coding job would suck the passion out of me, but weirdly, it’s cut the other way. The banality of the work that I do for my job makes me appreciate my personal projects more, and makes me more galvanized to do coding that does bring fulfillment. I suppose this isn’t necessary desirable however, since it relies on your job being a chore.
tcoff91 2y ago
I would love to code more on nights and weekends, but if I spend too long at the computer it makes my body hurt and feel bad.
- stronglikedan 2y ago
  The most ergonomic position is the next one. I have a mouse for each hand, and a track pad, and a sit/stand desk converter, and four chairs, some with and some without arms, and monitors on arms that can be easily repositioned. I'm always adjusting something, or using a different device or chair, and I alternate between sitting and standing a couple times each day. I also have a timer to remind me to stretch and takes walks once an hour. I guess what I'm trying to say is, you can code more on nights and weekends without spending too long at the computer (in the same position).
- bityard 2y ago
  I work a remote tech job and despite taking 15 minute (or longer) breaks every couple of hours, I have come to the conclusion that sitting in front of a screen for 8+ hours a day is slowly killing both my mental and physical health. I am trying to combat it with strength training and cardio in the mornings, and spending at least some of my evenings in my garage. This, unfortunately leaves me with very little time to do the computer and electronics-related projects I would so love to finally be working on. Also makes it just about impossible to level up my technical knowledge to further my career. I kind of dream of retiring early and finding some low-paying job that keeps me walking all day but leaves me with plenty of mental energy to come home and rock out a few hours of coding or whatever in the evening.
  - skirmish 2y ago
    > sitting in front of a screen for 8+ hours a day is slowly killing both my mental and physical health Do strength training when you are stuck waiting for things: tests running, mandatory meetings where you only listen. I have a set of dumbbells and kettlebells next to my (WFH) workstation and put them to good use during most working days.
Waterluvian 2y ago
Stream of thoughts: - I recently had an hours-long screenshare with a MMO guild leader showing dozens of spreadsheets. I was bewildered until he said that this is the game for him. This stuff is fun. He loves it. You can love what people call "work." - I fell into a years-long trap of, "if <activity> is not advancing my career or my family, why would it ever be worth doing?" This led to depression and terrible downwards spiraling of Five Why's of "what's the point of it all?" There's very few ways to live life wrongly. All of them are obvious. - I just had 2 weeks off where I didn't look at a single line of code. The longest stretch in my career. I was worried I'd come back to work and feel I wasted my time off. But no, it was amazing. My kids are amazing creatures.
- robin_reala 2y ago
  Good old Eve Online.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Accomplishing goals is fun. Doesn’t really matter what you do to achieve them. “Fun” almost doesn’t exist as an isolated concept.
woketemptation 2y ago
[dead]
cph123 2y ago
When I was a teenager and while studying at university I used to spend a lot of my spare time coding. Then after I got a job as a developer this dropped off quite quickly, opting instead to socialise and pursue other hobbies in that time. Since becoming a manager at work less of my time is actual coding, and in the last 6 months or so I have started to code a lot more on my own projects and I'm really enjoying it. It feels like overall there is a certain desire/capacity for it, and if that is getting used up at work, so be it, if not, then it fills up outside of work hours. Either way, each to their own. Some people would probably love to spend more time coding or on other hobbies but have other commitments like family to consider.
lwf09 2y ago
[dead]
not2b 2y ago
It's not wrong to code on nights and weekends if you like it. But there's also something to be said for developing other interests, that put your brain in a different space. You might even find that it can help with the coding. In my case, I enjoy coding and I also love hiking, and often find that when I'm stuck, an idea that gets me unstuck occurs to me when I'm out in the woods and nowhere near a computer.
sibeliuss 2y ago
This whole article really resonates, especially the bits about expectations for others. My main problem is that, having done so much coding (too much), its easy to identify just how long something should take (on average), and so when I see something trivial dragging on and on at work, it instantly raises a lot of questions. This happens so much that I look around at the team with nothing less than the deepest skepticism about just what folks are being paid for. It's hard for me to "let them be", but I have to, obviously. It creates a lot of internal tension that I can't figure out how to resolve.
the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
I agree. I wrote about this recently [1]: > There is a narrative that working hard is inherently bad for your health or that long hours lead to burnout. I disagree. It's not about how many hours you put in, but about the enjoyment and quality of the work you're doing. Still some of my most favorite memories were some all-nighters I did when I was younger working on something. It wasn't even necessarily on projects that ended up meaningful or successful, but it was the act in itself. When you find joy in what you're building in the moment, work does not feel like a burden. Instead it feels exciting and exhilarating. These memories, that some might describe as unhealthy are some of my most pleasant ones. It’s all about how you feel about it. When you enjoy it, spending nights and weekends can feel great. [1]: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/12/26/reflecting-on-life/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/12/26/reflecting-on-life/
htrp 2y ago
It's about coding on things you want not things you have to do. >There are wealthy gentlemen in England who drive four-horse passenger-coaches twenty or thirty miles on a daily line in the summer because the privilege costs them considerable money; but if they were offered wages for the service, that would turn it into work, and then they would resign. Mark Twain
jumski 2y ago
Thank you for sharing this—it resonates deeply with me. I share the same passion and often struggle to separate work from life because I genuinely enjoy programming. Over time, I’ve come to realize that as long as I stay connected to my family and relationships, I can find balance and even relax by doing what I love—coding. Knowing there are others who share these experiences is truly reassuring. By the way, have you read Paul Graham's essay "A Project of One's Own" (https://paulgraham.com/own.html https://paulgraham.com/own.html)? I really connected with his idea of being a "skater," and I wonder if you might relate to it as well.
psyclobe 2y ago
I only code at night, used to grind in the weekends too but ad I get older I find other things to do then give my salaried job free work. I think 8 am to 2pm is a total waste as I remain u focused until the evening for some reason.
kcartlidge 2y ago
I've been coding for around 45 years, the vast majority of them in a professional capacity. I still code an hour or more most evenings and at least triple that at the weekends. I love writing software. Over the festive period I wrote a text-based double-entry bookkeeping system with balance sheets and income (p&l) statements. For no reason; I just wanted to. And that's how it is for me. In my own time I code what I want and purely for pleasure. Sometimes it relates to work, but it is never actual work stuff. My work-life balance has the usual family aspects, but the main thing for me is making that clear distinction on what my motivation is for what I'm working on. As long the motivation isn't for work benefit that's fine, even if the learning outcome does eventually help there.
ashoeafoot 2y ago
it becomes a problem when you project the coding mindset on the world outside ,trying to program people or designing ideal dolutions for utopias while clearly not interested in actual humans, more an idealized angelic version.
AndyNemmity 2y ago
The thing is, I code for fun all the time, and don't enjoy coding for work often. That disconnect is something I'm working on lately. Why do I have so much fun when it's driven by my own desire, but don't enjoy when it's driven by the companies desire.
black_13 2y ago
[dead]
lasarkolja 2y ago
It's not only coding. Times ago I did the same as a woodworker/contractor. I was lucky to have a shop, where it doesn't disturb anyone, if I worked at night or on weekend. But I know, that this time of my life was extraordinary.
robotburrito 2y ago
I’m the type who always has a side project going. But I do sometimes wonder why we don’t expect plumbers to go home after their 8 hours and mess around with their home plumbing lab in the basement for another 2 :)

84 points by tejaskumar_ 2y ago

The main reason not to code on evenings and weekends is that your employer will own everything you do and might not allow you to do whatever you want anyway.

recursive 2y ago
Get a better contract I guess.
ghaff 2y ago
That seems a gross overgeneralization--although you might want to check if it might be an issue.
sarchertech 2y ago
Depends on the state and the terms of employment you agreed to. I’ve never agreed to let an employer own anything outside of a very specific scope. And I’ve rarely had to turn down a job because of that constraint. Employers have almost always had a reasonable scope with respect to what they own to begin with or have been fine with changing the scope to be more reasonable.
phito 2y ago
What? Do you know you can code for yourself and not for your employer?
- skirmish 2y ago
  I think the GP is referring to practices like [1] "Google claims copyright on employee side projects". [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21823413
- mgaunard 2y ago
  Any employer that pays decent money will claim ownership on everything you do even if you do not use any of the company's resources to do so.
  - phito 2y ago
    That's absurd.

fuzzfactor 2y ago

I think it's OK too. Not just coding but other types of technical work might benefit from not ruling this out, especially creative or innovative efforts. It can really make a difference depending on where you stand in a project environment. For me it was pretty easy to accept with cargo work where the ships come in at any time 24/7. Before I started my company I had already gone the extra mile like this for employers when it really made a difference. So I knew what I was getting into beforehand, I used to say you can run a company OK during business hours alone, but building a company may be the best use of nights & weekends depending on the circumstances. It took some time but doing it for my own self turned out better after all. It's not exactly a "super power" but good to have in your arsenal, plus in the right situation you could direct all your focus migrating toward having a 24/7 business that hardly ever requires "after-hours" effort after a while.

x0xrx 2y ago

A lot of people that are in tech because it’s a good job got pressured to make it their life. They reasonably pushed back, but the upshot was those of us that are passionate about programming as a hobby got pressured to not do it for fun. Both things are unreasonable. You shouldn’t have to program for fun to get a job. You can be good at it as a profession only. You also should be allowed to love it as a vocation or avocation. That doesn’t make you a sucker.

threatofrain 2y ago
As a hypothetical employer, should I be allowed to select for people who love programming because my internal metrics say they're an awesome fit? If so, then that's where the fundamental pressure is going to come from. So we can be on HN and sing "Oh, you do you!" but that won't relieve the fundamental source of pressure.
- boh 2y ago
  You can hypothetically do whatever you want, no one in the real world is hiring you because you "love programming".
  - treve 2y ago
    I work at a small company and I do try select for people that create because of internal drive. It doesn't strictly have to be programming, but it tends to be. I agree not every company needs this. It could even be a negative for some type of work.
  - asdasdsddd 2y ago
    That's definitely not true. The whole side project meme was a big thing a while back because employers were specifically looking for people who liked programming so much they do it on the side.
    - boh 2y ago
      A "while back".

hnuser123456 2y ago

I have a non-coding day job and spend most of my time thinking about how to improve my projects when I get home, then code late into the night. Trying to get hired as a programmer somewhere, but part of me also worries it might exhaust me from coding on my own projects. If only I had enough spare time to build something worth monetizing while being able to pay the bills...

andrepd 2y ago
I definitely was much more exhausted and with much less energy to work on my projects after I got a real industry job, sadly.
- ghaff 2y ago
  It's pretty natural if you do some activity all day for work, also doing it as a hobby is much harder.
knallfrosch 2y ago
When working on useful projects with autonomy for money, you're not really losing out.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > When working on useful projects with autonomy for money, you're not really losing out. You are if you're only making salary.
crtez 2y ago
I was originally worried that my coding job would suck the passion out of me, but weirdly, it’s cut the other way. The banality of the work that I do for my job makes me appreciate my personal projects more, and makes me more galvanized to do coding that does bring fulfillment. I suppose this isn’t necessary desirable however, since it relies on your job being a chore.

tcoff91 2y ago

I would love to code more on nights and weekends, but if I spend too long at the computer it makes my body hurt and feel bad.

stronglikedan 2y ago
The most ergonomic position is the next one. I have a mouse for each hand, and a track pad, and a sit/stand desk converter, and four chairs, some with and some without arms, and monitors on arms that can be easily repositioned. I'm always adjusting something, or using a different device or chair, and I alternate between sitting and standing a couple times each day. I also have a timer to remind me to stretch and takes walks once an hour. I guess what I'm trying to say is, you can code more on nights and weekends without spending too long at the computer (in the same position).
bityard 2y ago
I work a remote tech job and despite taking 15 minute (or longer) breaks every couple of hours, I have come to the conclusion that sitting in front of a screen for 8+ hours a day is slowly killing both my mental and physical health. I am trying to combat it with strength training and cardio in the mornings, and spending at least some of my evenings in my garage. This, unfortunately leaves me with very little time to do the computer and electronics-related projects I would so love to finally be working on. Also makes it just about impossible to level up my technical knowledge to further my career. I kind of dream of retiring early and finding some low-paying job that keeps me walking all day but leaves me with plenty of mental energy to come home and rock out a few hours of coding or whatever in the evening.
- skirmish 2y ago
  > sitting in front of a screen for 8+ hours a day is slowly killing both my mental and physical health Do strength training when you are stuck waiting for things: tests running, mandatory meetings where you only listen. I have a set of dumbbells and kettlebells next to my (WFH) workstation and put them to good use during most working days.

Waterluvian 2y ago

Stream of thoughts: - I recently had an hours-long screenshare with a MMO guild leader showing dozens of spreadsheets. I was bewildered until he said that this is the game for him. This stuff is fun. He loves it. You can love what people call "work." - I fell into a years-long trap of, "if <activity> is not advancing my career or my family, why would it ever be worth doing?" This led to depression and terrible downwards spiraling of Five Why's of "what's the point of it all?" There's very few ways to live life wrongly. All of them are obvious. - I just had 2 weeks off where I didn't look at a single line of code. The longest stretch in my career. I was worried I'd come back to work and feel I wasted my time off. But no, it was amazing. My kids are amazing creatures.

robin_reala 2y ago
Good old Eve Online.
jncfhnb 2y ago
Accomplishing goals is fun. Doesn’t really matter what you do to achieve them. “Fun” almost doesn’t exist as an isolated concept.

woketemptation 2y ago

[dead]

cph123 2y ago

When I was a teenager and while studying at university I used to spend a lot of my spare time coding. Then after I got a job as a developer this dropped off quite quickly, opting instead to socialise and pursue other hobbies in that time. Since becoming a manager at work less of my time is actual coding, and in the last 6 months or so I have started to code a lot more on my own projects and I'm really enjoying it. It feels like overall there is a certain desire/capacity for it, and if that is getting used up at work, so be it, if not, then it fills up outside of work hours. Either way, each to their own. Some people would probably love to spend more time coding or on other hobbies but have other commitments like family to consider.

lwf09 2y ago

[dead]

not2b 2y ago

It's not wrong to code on nights and weekends if you like it. But there's also something to be said for developing other interests, that put your brain in a different space. You might even find that it can help with the coding. In my case, I enjoy coding and I also love hiking, and often find that when I'm stuck, an idea that gets me unstuck occurs to me when I'm out in the woods and nowhere near a computer.

sibeliuss 2y ago

This whole article really resonates, especially the bits about expectations for others. My main problem is that, having done so much coding (too much), its easy to identify just how long something should take (on average), and so when I see something trivial dragging on and on at work, it instantly raises a lot of questions. This happens so much that I look around at the team with nothing less than the deepest skepticism about just what folks are being paid for. It's hard for me to "let them be", but I have to, obviously. It creates a lot of internal tension that I can't figure out how to resolve.

the_mitsuhiko 2y ago

I agree. I wrote about this recently [1]: > There is a narrative that working hard is inherently bad for your health or that long hours lead to burnout. I disagree. It's not about how many hours you put in, but about the enjoyment and quality of the work you're doing. Still some of my most favorite memories were some all-nighters I did when I was younger working on something. It wasn't even necessarily on projects that ended up meaningful or successful, but it was the act in itself. When you find joy in what you're building in the moment, work does not feel like a burden. Instead it feels exciting and exhilarating. These memories, that some might describe as unhealthy are some of my most pleasant ones. It’s all about how you feel about it. When you enjoy it, spending nights and weekends can feel great. [1]: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/12/26/reflecting-on-life/ https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2024/12/26/reflecting-on-life/

htrp 2y ago

It's about coding on things you want not things you have to do. >There are wealthy gentlemen in England who drive four-horse passenger-coaches twenty or thirty miles on a daily line in the summer because the privilege costs them considerable money; but if they were offered wages for the service, that would turn it into work, and then they would resign. Mark Twain

jumski 2y ago

Thank you for sharing this—it resonates deeply with me. I share the same passion and often struggle to separate work from life because I genuinely enjoy programming. Over time, I’ve come to realize that as long as I stay connected to my family and relationships, I can find balance and even relax by doing what I love—coding. Knowing there are others who share these experiences is truly reassuring. By the way, have you read Paul Graham's essay "A Project of One's Own" (https://paulgraham.com/own.html https://paulgraham.com/own.html)? I really connected with his idea of being a "skater," and I wonder if you might relate to it as well.

psyclobe 2y ago

I only code at night, used to grind in the weekends too but ad I get older I find other things to do then give my salaried job free work. I think 8 am to 2pm is a total waste as I remain u focused until the evening for some reason.

kcartlidge 2y ago

I've been coding for around 45 years, the vast majority of them in a professional capacity. I still code an hour or more most evenings and at least triple that at the weekends. I love writing software. Over the festive period I wrote a text-based double-entry bookkeeping system with balance sheets and income (p&l) statements. For no reason; I just wanted to. And that's how it is for me. In my own time I code what I want and purely for pleasure. Sometimes it relates to work, but it is never actual work stuff. My work-life balance has the usual family aspects, but the main thing for me is making that clear distinction on what my motivation is for what I'm working on. As long the motivation isn't for work benefit that's fine, even if the learning outcome does eventually help there.

ashoeafoot 2y ago

it becomes a problem when you project the coding mindset on the world outside ,trying to program people or designing ideal dolutions for utopias while clearly not interested in actual humans, more an idealized angelic version.

AndyNemmity 2y ago

The thing is, I code for fun all the time, and don't enjoy coding for work often. That disconnect is something I'm working on lately. Why do I have so much fun when it's driven by my own desire, but don't enjoy when it's driven by the companies desire.

black_13 2y ago

[dead]

lasarkolja 2y ago

It's not only coding. Times ago I did the same as a woodworker/contractor. I was lucky to have a shop, where it doesn't disturb anyone, if I worked at night or on weekend. But I know, that this time of my life was extraordinary.

robotburrito 2y ago

I’m the type who always has a side project going. But I do sometimes wonder why we don’t expect plumbers to go home after their 8 hours and mess around with their home plumbing lab in the basement for another 2 :)