4 ms·

It is overly generous to describe this as "privacy first." This looks like it's one ToS change away from being a privacy violating service. In Apple's case, th

by cdata 2y ago

It is overly generous to describe this as "privacy first." This looks like it's one ToS change away from being a privacy violating service. In Apple's case, they are putting some amount of work into making their privacy claims verifiable. Good will is no longer good enough. Verifiability should be the bar for trust in 3P privacy claims.

mentalgear 2y ago
This might be true for any run-of-the-mill service, but I do give Mozilla upfront credit as an entity and Firefox's privacy-leading track record. I haven't read the fine print, but I would be very surprised if there wasn't a robust layer of privacy/anonymisation involved. (Side note: I think the future is in-browser LLM (a la Gemini Nano), so I suspect they will eventually move there.) Also consider that Apple has the big pockets to build their own server hardware, to claim multiple layers of privacy - but also remember that when they first introduced "differential privacy" and claimed it would be totally anonymous, privacy researchers soon found out that Apple set the epsilon so low that even after a few requests to their service, the user could be de-anonymized. source: "Apple has boasted of its use of a cutting-edge data science known as "differential privacy." Researchers say they're doing it wrong." https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-shortcomings/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-short...
- nulbyte 2y ago
  Mozilla's privacy-leading track record includes making Google the default search engine, running opt-in-by-default privacy-violating experiments, such as the Mr Robot fiasco[1], and opt-in-by-default collaboration with advertisers[2]. I still use Firefox, but I try to stay aware of changes, precisely because of Mozilla's privacy-leading gaffe record. 1. https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ 2. https://www.pcmag.com/news/firefox-mozilla-data-collection-feature-sparks-privacy-concerns https://www.pcmag.com/news/firefox-mozilla-data-collection-f...
  - legacynl 2y ago
    If those are the only examples of privacy-tarnishing theyve done, I think that would speak for Firefox and Mozilla.
    - mort96 2y ago
      They literally have Google Analytics which sends telemetry data to Google integrated into the Firefox UI.
      - smarnach 2y ago
        Can you substantiate this a bit more? Do you have a link?
        progval 2y ago
        https://github.com/mozilla/addons/issues/3145 https://github.com/mozilla/addons/issues/3145 Worth noting that the comment closing the issue mentions: > You can disable Google Analytics in about:addons by setting your Do Not Track status to on. > Again: this only affects users who visit the page with Tracking Protection on (which automatically enables DNT) or who manually set their DNT status to on. but Firefox removed the DNT control last month (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1928087 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1928087), though it kept the Tracking Protection control and privacy.donottrackheader.enabled is still available in about:config.

by cdata 2y ago

mentalgear 2y ago

This might be true for any run-of-the-mill service, but I do give Mozilla upfront credit as an entity and Firefox's privacy-leading track record. I haven't read the fine print, but I would be very surprised if there wasn't a robust layer of privacy/anonymisation involved. (Side note: I think the future is in-browser LLM (a la Gemini Nano), so I suspect they will eventually move there.) Also consider that Apple has the big pockets to build their own server hardware, to claim multiple layers of privacy - but also remember that when they first introduced "differential privacy" and claimed it would be totally anonymous, privacy researchers soon found out that Apple set the epsilon so low that even after a few requests to their service, the user could be de-anonymized. source: "Apple has boasted of its use of a cutting-edge data science known as "differential privacy." Researchers say they're doing it wrong." https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-shortcomings/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-differential-privacy-short...

nulbyte 2y ago
Mozilla's privacy-leading track record includes making Google the default search engine, running opt-in-by-default privacy-violating experiments, such as the Mr Robot fiasco[1], and opt-in-by-default collaboration with advertisers[2]. I still use Firefox, but I try to stay aware of changes, precisely because of Mozilla's privacy-leading gaffe record. 1. https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ 2. https://www.pcmag.com/news/firefox-mozilla-data-collection-feature-sparks-privacy-concerns https://www.pcmag.com/news/firefox-mozilla-data-collection-f...
- legacynl 2y ago
  If those are the only examples of privacy-tarnishing theyve done, I think that would speak for Firefox and Mozilla.
  - mort96 2y ago
    They literally have Google Analytics which sends telemetry data to Google integrated into the Firefox UI.
    - smarnach 2y ago
      Can you substantiate this a bit more? Do you have a link?
      - progval 2y ago
        https://github.com/mozilla/addons/issues/3145 https://github.com/mozilla/addons/issues/3145 Worth noting that the comment closing the issue mentions: > You can disable Google Analytics in about:addons by setting your Do Not Track status to on. > Again: this only affects users who visit the page with Tracking Protection on (which automatically enables DNT) or who manually set their DNT status to on. but Firefox removed the DNT control last month (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1928087 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1928087), though it kept the Tracking Protection control and privacy.donottrackheader.enabled is still available in about:config.