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by kome 2y ago

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mentalgear 2y ago
Agreed, I also often get that feeling of a double standard.
vasco 2y ago
Mozilla's problem for me is they wasted their market dominance by hiring grifters as their leaders and allowed bad actors to come in. I have nothing to base it off other than the results, but someone with a tinfoil hat would wonder if Google chose or influenced the choice of Mozillas leadership to allow Chrome to grow by destroying it from the inside. They were already basically bankrolling the whole company so it's not a big stretch.
Y_Y 2y ago
I didn't have the impression that HN was fine with all those things. Supposing it was, wouldn't it be ok to continue criticizing Mozilla, while also criticizing the bad behaviour of the others?
rpastuszak 2y ago
> Mozilla only problem is being transparent about telemetry. It's far from that: https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/defaults-matter-dont-assume-consent/#h-dollar510000000 https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/defaults-matter-dont-assume... (I still think FF is one of the best choices privacy wise, it's just that we don't have that many choices left) > HN is fine with tracking, smartphones, and every surveillance capitalist trick in the book (meta comment, thinking aloud here, feel free to skip) You might be conflating two different groups of users, each vocal about different subjects. That said, there's a big group of people on HN, who just enjoy being annoyingly contrarian. Then some people derive pleasure from pointing out some "moral fallacy" on whatever they perceive as the opposite part of their political/ideological spectrum ("you think my flashlight app collecting fingerprinting data from your phone is evil? well, your browser doesn't block all cookies by default you hypocrite!"). Life's too short for psychoanalysing the orange site, so I'll stop here.
sltkr 2y ago
You're assuming there is a single HN hivemind. In reality different companies cater to different audiences with different values, and you'll hear from a different subset of HN users on each topic. Mozilla users care more about privacy than e.g. Microsoft or Google users do, so when Mozilla adds tracking to one of their products, they get more criticism from their users than their competitors would. This isn't unexpected or hypocritical of those users.
ksec 2y ago
>HN is fine with tracking, smartphones, and every surveillance capitalist trick in the book, You must be reading a very different HN to mine. Every single submission that reach front page has comment against all the thing you stated. With little to no support for it. Ads are all evil and there shouldn't be any has been the theme in just a very recent thread.
slightwinder 2y ago
HN in general is not fine with tracking and surveillance. But this is irrelevant for Mozilla specifically, as most companies/projects are not selling themselves on high privacy and rescuing the internet. They are making goal and promises which they repeatedly fail to reach, and people are outcalling them for this. And the worst part is, they are not even not holding up to their own standards, they even ignored and broke them multiple times, and people remember.

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by kome 2y ago

[flagged]

mentalgear 2y ago

Agreed, I also often get that feeling of a double standard.

vasco 2y ago

Mozilla's problem for me is they wasted their market dominance by hiring grifters as their leaders and allowed bad actors to come in. I have nothing to base it off other than the results, but someone with a tinfoil hat would wonder if Google chose or influenced the choice of Mozillas leadership to allow Chrome to grow by destroying it from the inside. They were already basically bankrolling the whole company so it's not a big stretch.

Y_Y 2y ago

I didn't have the impression that HN was fine with all those things. Supposing it was, wouldn't it be ok to continue criticizing Mozilla, while also criticizing the bad behaviour of the others?

rpastuszak 2y ago

> Mozilla only problem is being transparent about telemetry. It's far from that: https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/defaults-matter-dont-assume-consent/#h-dollar510000000 https://untested.sonnet.io/notes/defaults-matter-dont-assume... (I still think FF is one of the best choices privacy wise, it's just that we don't have that many choices left) > HN is fine with tracking, smartphones, and every surveillance capitalist trick in the book (meta comment, thinking aloud here, feel free to skip) You might be conflating two different groups of users, each vocal about different subjects. That said, there's a big group of people on HN, who just enjoy being annoyingly contrarian. Then some people derive pleasure from pointing out some "moral fallacy" on whatever they perceive as the opposite part of their political/ideological spectrum ("you think my flashlight app collecting fingerprinting data from your phone is evil? well, your browser doesn't block all cookies by default you hypocrite!"). Life's too short for psychoanalysing the orange site, so I'll stop here.

sltkr 2y ago

You're assuming there is a single HN hivemind. In reality different companies cater to different audiences with different values, and you'll hear from a different subset of HN users on each topic. Mozilla users care more about privacy than e.g. Microsoft or Google users do, so when Mozilla adds tracking to one of their products, they get more criticism from their users than their competitors would. This isn't unexpected or hypocritical of those users.

ksec 2y ago

>HN is fine with tracking, smartphones, and every surveillance capitalist trick in the book, You must be reading a very different HN to mine. Every single submission that reach front page has comment against all the thing you stated. With little to no support for it. Ads are all evil and there shouldn't be any has been the theme in just a very recent thread.

slightwinder 2y ago

HN in general is not fine with tracking and surveillance. But this is irrelevant for Mozilla specifically, as most companies/projects are not selling themselves on high privacy and rescuing the internet. They are making goal and promises which they repeatedly fail to reach, and people are outcalling them for this. And the worst part is, they are not even not holding up to their own standards, they even ignored and broke them multiple times, and people remember.