4 ms·

Fair. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 12 times or so shame on me. /s, kinda. The OP claimed it got better in 2017, and it didn't meet my standards. But

Fair. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 12 times or so shame on me. /s, kinda. The OP claimed it got better in 2017, and it didn't meet my standards. But I'm honest that I haven't tried it in 2 years. If some news or person came out to suggest something big changed and I should try it again, I will. Otherwise I'm just wasting time for no reason.

bayindirh 2y ago
As a person who never used Chrome in a capacity to replace Firefox (I just refused to give up), I'll just share this [0]. As I understand, no amount of words can convince you because I neither know what your standards are, nor I have the right words to convince you to try Firefox again. So, you have to give it a try and see it for yourself. As a matter of principle, I'd never use a browser which is funded by an advertisement company which lives off my data to show me ads and rob me of my privacy and cognitive capacity. In my book, Brave is even worse on that matter. Edit: To clarify: I still have Chrome installed for the odd, unmaintained site which happens to require something Chrome specific, but I just don't open it, since Firefox works for everything and works very well. [0]: https://arewefastyet.com/win11/benchmarks/overview?numDays=60 https://arewefastyet.com/win11/benchmarks/overview?numDays=6...
- KORraN 2y ago
  I just checked these benchmarks results few days ago - am I reading this wrong or (apart from Assorted DOM) Firefox loses in most of the tests?
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    The problem is, benchmarks are never a fair game. It's the nature of the benchmark as a genre. You can always bias a benchmark towards some code path to show that you're superior. Also, there are other factors to consider: - Some of the benchmarks are "lower is better", so reading Y axis is important. - Some results are very close (e.g. speedometer), but the zoom makes difference bigger, so reading the Y numbers again is important. So, Firefox beats Chrome on WebAudio, StyleBench, AssortedDOM. However, this is still "benchmarks", The real world performance is very, very close. The bigger picture is, when you look at longer histories, the performance is still being tuned and improved. So, Firefox people are not sitting on what they have. Lastly, Firefox is way more sensitive to DNS response time when compared to Chrome, and a crowded site makes tons of requests. A fast DNS makes a ton of difference, which is way overlooked. I used to run a DNSMasq instance when my ISP DNS was very slow. Now, my routers have their own tuned DNSMasq instances, so DNS is instant, so Firefox is as well.
- bowsamic 2y ago
  > As a matter of principle, I'd never use a browser which is funded by an advertisement company which lives off my data to show me ads and rob me of my privacy and cognitive capacity. You can’t use Firefox either then
  - bayindirh 2y ago
    I can disable all its telemetry, and change my search engine. It becomes a box which receives but never emits. Plus, I don't use its Mozilla build, but its Debian build.
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      Sure but you specifically said “funded by” and Gecko dev is funded almost entirely by Google
      - bayindirh 2y ago
        How many daily-driveable browser engines we have today? - Blink: Chromium and their friends. - Webkit: Safari specific, on iOS and macOS only. - Gecko: Firefox and its a few forks. First two are forks of KHTML, which is dead by the end of KDE5 era. So? You have a cross platform evil and lesser evil (by judging the development financing). What you do? On the other hand, I don't finance Google by using the browser itself, so that's another plus in my book.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        Yeah they’re all funded by Google, so by your explicitly stated principle you can’t use any of them
        bayindirh 2y ago
        At least, I’m not feeding Google directly with my every keystroke, so that’s a plus. At least in my eyes. Sometimes we have to be pragmatic, especially if being pedantic is detrimental to our aims. Happy new year.
Vinnl 2y ago
Still upcoming (already in Nightly), but I'm very excited about vertical tabs, tab grouping, and a better profile UI. And proper uBlock Origin support is table stakes for me.
- bayindirh 2y ago
  Considering the Profile UI is basically the same since Netscape days, a revamp of this is a bit overdue. Just a bit though. :)
  - Vinnl 2y ago
    Absolutely. It's looking really good in Nightly though.

bayindirh 2y ago

As a person who never used Chrome in a capacity to replace Firefox (I just refused to give up), I'll just share this [0]. As I understand, no amount of words can convince you because I neither know what your standards are, nor I have the right words to convince you to try Firefox again. So, you have to give it a try and see it for yourself. As a matter of principle, I'd never use a browser which is funded by an advertisement company which lives off my data to show me ads and rob me of my privacy and cognitive capacity. In my book, Brave is even worse on that matter. Edit: To clarify: I still have Chrome installed for the odd, unmaintained site which happens to require something Chrome specific, but I just don't open it, since Firefox works for everything and works very well. [0]: https://arewefastyet.com/win11/benchmarks/overview?numDays=60 https://arewefastyet.com/win11/benchmarks/overview?numDays=6...

KORraN 2y ago
I just checked these benchmarks results few days ago - am I reading this wrong or (apart from Assorted DOM) Firefox loses in most of the tests?
- bayindirh 2y ago
  The problem is, benchmarks are never a fair game. It's the nature of the benchmark as a genre. You can always bias a benchmark towards some code path to show that you're superior. Also, there are other factors to consider: - Some of the benchmarks are "lower is better", so reading Y axis is important. - Some results are very close (e.g. speedometer), but the zoom makes difference bigger, so reading the Y numbers again is important. So, Firefox beats Chrome on WebAudio, StyleBench, AssortedDOM. However, this is still "benchmarks", The real world performance is very, very close. The bigger picture is, when you look at longer histories, the performance is still being tuned and improved. So, Firefox people are not sitting on what they have. Lastly, Firefox is way more sensitive to DNS response time when compared to Chrome, and a crowded site makes tons of requests. A fast DNS makes a ton of difference, which is way overlooked. I used to run a DNSMasq instance when my ISP DNS was very slow. Now, my routers have their own tuned DNSMasq instances, so DNS is instant, so Firefox is as well.
bowsamic 2y ago
> As a matter of principle, I'd never use a browser which is funded by an advertisement company which lives off my data to show me ads and rob me of my privacy and cognitive capacity. You can’t use Firefox either then
- bayindirh 2y ago
  I can disable all its telemetry, and change my search engine. It becomes a box which receives but never emits. Plus, I don't use its Mozilla build, but its Debian build.
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    Sure but you specifically said “funded by” and Gecko dev is funded almost entirely by Google
    - bayindirh 2y ago
      How many daily-driveable browser engines we have today? - Blink: Chromium and their friends. - Webkit: Safari specific, on iOS and macOS only. - Gecko: Firefox and its a few forks. First two are forks of KHTML, which is dead by the end of KDE5 era. So? You have a cross platform evil and lesser evil (by judging the development financing). What you do? On the other hand, I don't finance Google by using the browser itself, so that's another plus in my book.
      - bowsamic 2y ago
        Yeah they’re all funded by Google, so by your explicitly stated principle you can’t use any of them
        bayindirh 2y ago
        At least, I’m not feeding Google directly with my every keystroke, so that’s a plus. At least in my eyes. Sometimes we have to be pragmatic, especially if being pedantic is detrimental to our aims. Happy new year.

Vinnl 2y ago

Still upcoming (already in Nightly), but I'm very excited about vertical tabs, tab grouping, and a better profile UI. And proper uBlock Origin support is table stakes for me.

bayindirh 2y ago
Considering the Profile UI is basically the same since Netscape days, a revamp of this is a bit overdue. Just a bit though. :)
- Vinnl 2y ago
  Absolutely. It's looking really good in Nightly though.