3 ms·

The cryptography is not where Signal is vulnerable. What Signal is running on, as in operating system and/or hardware that runs other embedded software on "hidd

The cryptography is not where Signal is vulnerable. What Signal is running on, as in operating system and/or hardware that runs other embedded software on "hidden cores", is how the private keys can be taken. Anything you can buy retail will for sure fuck you the user over.

tptacek 2y ago
Oh, so none of this has anything to do with Signal. Ok!
- devops99 2y ago
  In theory, "none of this has anything to do with Signal", and you are correct ; but back over here in reality: Signal runs on these systems. Hence the security afforded by Signal is very weak in-practice and questionable at best.
Intermernet 2y ago
Retail hardware actually has a better track record at the moment than bespoke, closed market devices. ANOM was a trap and most closed encryption schemes are hideously buggy. You're actually better off with Android and signal. If we had open baseband it would be better, but we don't, so it's not. Perfect security isn't possible. See "reflections on trusting trust".
- devops99 2y ago
  Bespoke but-not-really-bespoke closed-market devices made by the right people are very secure, but they are not sold to the profane (you). > ANOM was a trap Yes, ANOM was intended to be a trap. > and most closed encryption schemes are hideously buggy Yes they are. Hence some of us use open encryption schemes on our closed-market devices. > You're actually better off with Android and signal. I am better off with closed-market devices than I am with any retail device. > If we had open baseband it would be better And the ability to audit what is loaded on the handset, and the ability to reflash, etc. In the real-world all we have so far is punting this problem over to another compute board. > Perfect security isn't possible. Perhaps, but I was not after "perfect security", I was just after "security" and no retail device will ever give me that, but a closed-market device already has. > See "reflections on trusting trust". Already saw it. You're welcome to see: - https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2020/reproducible-computations-with-guix/ - https://reproducible-builds.org - https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-full-source-bootstrap-building-from-source-all-the-way-down/

tptacek 2y ago

Oh, so none of this has anything to do with Signal. Ok!

devops99 2y ago
In theory, "none of this has anything to do with Signal", and you are correct ; but back over here in reality: Signal runs on these systems. Hence the security afforded by Signal is very weak in-practice and questionable at best.

Intermernet 2y ago

Retail hardware actually has a better track record at the moment than bespoke, closed market devices. ANOM was a trap and most closed encryption schemes are hideously buggy. You're actually better off with Android and signal. If we had open baseband it would be better, but we don't, so it's not. Perfect security isn't possible. See "reflections on trusting trust".

devops99 2y ago
Bespoke but-not-really-bespoke closed-market devices made by the right people are very secure, but they are not sold to the profane (you). > ANOM was a trap Yes, ANOM was intended to be a trap. > and most closed encryption schemes are hideously buggy Yes they are. Hence some of us use open encryption schemes on our closed-market devices. > You're actually better off with Android and signal. I am better off with closed-market devices than I am with any retail device. > If we had open baseband it would be better And the ability to audit what is loaded on the handset, and the ability to reflash, etc. In the real-world all we have so far is punting this problem over to another compute board. > Perfect security isn't possible. Perhaps, but I was not after "perfect security", I was just after "security" and no retail device will ever give me that, but a closed-market device already has. > See "reflections on trusting trust". Already saw it. You're welcome to see: - https://guix.gnu.org/blog/2020/reproducible-computations-with-guix/ - https://reproducible-builds.org - https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2023/the-full-source-bootstrap-building-from-source-all-the-way-down/