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But you don't install software and drivers on Linux, you edit your nix flake, switch and it always works. If it doesn't work up to your liking, you boot into th

But you don't install software and drivers on Linux, you edit your nix flake, switch and it always works. If it doesn't work up to your liking, you boot into the previous generation. Also for some mysterious reasons, compiling C code under Nix always works and dependencies can't be missing.

t-writescode 2y ago
NixOS is certainly the most obvious design paradigm with the most confusing integration / implementation I've ever seen. It feels a bit like "Emacs is my favorite operating system, if only it had a text editor" NixOS's philosophy? amazing. Actually trying to use, install stuff to, make changes to, etc. NixOS with the currently existing tools? horrible.
- pshirshov 2y ago
  The benefits outweight the issues.
  - t-writescode 2y ago
    Sure, if I want to spend weeks and months of time learning how to: * move my arms again, so I can learn how to * push myself up again, so I can learn how to * move my legs again, so I can learn how to * crawl, so I can learn how to * walk. Cost of entry is a very real issue with NixOS and many/most of us are not interested in taking that time, so until it's easy / reasonable to use for most people's lived experiences, it'll sit on the backburner of Linux installations.
    - pshirshov 2y ago
      In my case I managed to get working desktop in about 15 minutes without any prior Nix knowledge just by following their tutorial, then about 16 hours to read/learn/experiment and 8 more hours to complete my environment and 8 more to move my homelab to Nix. Since then I spend around two hours every six months to update and polish my flakes. Although Nix knowledge helped me tremendously in managing heterogenous codebase with more than a million of LoC
      - layer8 2y ago
        That doesn’t sound like something the average computer user would be able or willing to do.
        pshirshov 2y ago
        There are plenty of options which would do for that average user.
        layer8 2y ago
        This subthread started with “When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled, sooner or later.” Then came the objection that one wouldn’t do that with Nix. Then that yeah, but Nix is too difficult to use. Then that no, it isn’t that difficult after you spend a weekend or two learning it. Which isn’t for the average user. Now you say there are plenty of other options, presumably non-Nix. I feel we are back to where this subthread started.
        pshirshov 2y ago
        There was no "average user" constraint specified. Works on my desktop.
        kelnos 2y ago
        "Works on my desktop" is about the most useless thing you can say when comparing good and bad experiences that different people might have.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    For you, perhaps, but not for me.
musicale 2y ago
In my experience, Nix makes some things very easy and other things very, very difficult. I hope the situation has improved, but the last time I had to deal with Nvidia (kernel/driver/library dependencies/updates/etc.) under Nix it did not remotely work out of the box and it was a huge pain. (And switching to AMD or intel was not really an option.) Doing anything off the beaten path seems to be challenging even if you have experience with Nix. The arcane Nix language doesn't help matters. I think immutable is the future, and I wish I could recommend Nix (and other immutable systems) to normal people, but at this point I think you really need to be a Nix expert/fan to set it up and actually enjoy it.
- pshirshov 2y ago
  In my experience, Nvidia drivers only work well under Nix, because their native installer loves to mess stateful systems.
  - ChocolateGod 2y ago
    Running a .run to install the nvidia drivers is a very bad idea if your distro packages them, especially on NixOS (does it even work?)
    - pshirshov 2y ago
      > does it even work No

t-writescode 2y ago

NixOS is certainly the most obvious design paradigm with the most confusing integration / implementation I've ever seen. It feels a bit like "Emacs is my favorite operating system, if only it had a text editor" NixOS's philosophy? amazing. Actually trying to use, install stuff to, make changes to, etc. NixOS with the currently existing tools? horrible.

pshirshov 2y ago
The benefits outweight the issues.
- t-writescode 2y ago
  Sure, if I want to spend weeks and months of time learning how to: * move my arms again, so I can learn how to * push myself up again, so I can learn how to * move my legs again, so I can learn how to * crawl, so I can learn how to * walk. Cost of entry is a very real issue with NixOS and many/most of us are not interested in taking that time, so until it's easy / reasonable to use for most people's lived experiences, it'll sit on the backburner of Linux installations.
  - pshirshov 2y ago
    In my case I managed to get working desktop in about 15 minutes without any prior Nix knowledge just by following their tutorial, then about 16 hours to read/learn/experiment and 8 more hours to complete my environment and 8 more to move my homelab to Nix. Since then I spend around two hours every six months to update and polish my flakes. Although Nix knowledge helped me tremendously in managing heterogenous codebase with more than a million of LoC
    - layer8 2y ago
      That doesn’t sound like something the average computer user would be able or willing to do.
      - pshirshov 2y ago
        There are plenty of options which would do for that average user.
        layer8 2y ago
        This subthread started with “When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled, sooner or later.” Then came the objection that one wouldn’t do that with Nix. Then that yeah, but Nix is too difficult to use. Then that no, it isn’t that difficult after you spend a weekend or two learning it. Which isn’t for the average user. Now you say there are plenty of other options, presumably non-Nix. I feel we are back to where this subthread started.
        pshirshov 2y ago
        There was no "average user" constraint specified. Works on my desktop.
        kelnos 2y ago
        "Works on my desktop" is about the most useless thing you can say when comparing good and bad experiences that different people might have.
- kelnos 2y ago
  For you, perhaps, but not for me.

musicale 2y ago

In my experience, Nix makes some things very easy and other things very, very difficult. I hope the situation has improved, but the last time I had to deal with Nvidia (kernel/driver/library dependencies/updates/etc.) under Nix it did not remotely work out of the box and it was a huge pain. (And switching to AMD or intel was not really an option.) Doing anything off the beaten path seems to be challenging even if you have experience with Nix. The arcane Nix language doesn't help matters. I think immutable is the future, and I wish I could recommend Nix (and other immutable systems) to normal people, but at this point I think you really need to be a Nix expert/fan to set it up and actually enjoy it.

pshirshov 2y ago
In my experience, Nvidia drivers only work well under Nix, because their native installer loves to mess stateful systems.
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  Running a .run to install the nvidia drivers is a very bad idea if your distro packages them, especially on NixOS (does it even work?)
  - pshirshov 2y ago
    > does it even work No