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"Fullsize sedans driven in the US" isn't the same as "passenger cars", but whatever, regardless: they're within the same order of magnitude of other passenger c

"Fullsize sedans driven in the US" isn't the same as "passenger cars", but whatever, regardless: they're within the same order of magnitude of other passenger cars. This small difference you're observing is likely because people drive like idiots in them. You'll see that other vehicles which encourage bad behavior have similar death rates. My point was, their safety systems don't put them in a significantly safer category, like a bus, train, or a plane, all of which are orders of magnitude safer.

michaelmrose 2y ago
Its not a small difference its up to 5x worse and there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers. The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot
- deleted 2y ago
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- kube-system 2y ago
  No, I think 0.5 orders of magnitude is quite factually small compared to 6 orders of magnitude. > there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers Ah yes, just like all drivers of expensive hellcats are known for their safe driving? No, Teslas are not driven by the same demographics as Toyota Siennas. Have you taken a rideshare in a city before? > The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot The last I checked, the data showed that people wreck them at about the same rates with or without the driver assistance features engaged.
  - michaelmrose 2y ago
    I have no idea why you latched on to the utterly useless orders of magnitude when the correct comparison is a simple rate of deaths over vehicle miles. If you drive lifetime 800,000 miles which is damn easy to do in America in a car that has 6-10 fatalities per billion miles your lifetime risk of dying or killing someone are up to 0.6% absolute not relative. To be crystal clear its the difference between rolling a 500 sided die vs a 125 sided die where if you roll a one your brains end up on the dash. Its a big difference and ascribing a difference in mortality to the drivers is equally poor. Its not just unfounded its counterfactual young drivers which largely can't afford Teslas are disproportionately involved in such crashes. https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/young-drivers#:~:text=In%202021%20drivers%2020%20and,of%20drivers%20in%20all%20crashes https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/young-d.... Purely based on driver demographics one would expect fewer fatal crashes. Please explain an absolutely massive increase in fatal crashes.

michaelmrose 2y ago

Its not a small difference its up to 5x worse and there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers. The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot

deleted 2y ago
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kube-system 2y ago
No, I think 0.5 orders of magnitude is quite factually small compared to 6 orders of magnitude. > there is no reason to believe Tesla drivers are worse in fact as with all expensive vehicles its population is liable to have fewer younger more dangerous drivers Ah yes, just like all drivers of expensive hellcats are known for their safe driving? No, Teslas are not driven by the same demographics as Toyota Siennas. Have you taken a rideshare in a city before? > The logical conclusion is that the car is more dangerous with the obvious suspect being autopilot The last I checked, the data showed that people wreck them at about the same rates with or without the driver assistance features engaged.
- michaelmrose 2y ago
  I have no idea why you latched on to the utterly useless orders of magnitude when the correct comparison is a simple rate of deaths over vehicle miles. If you drive lifetime 800,000 miles which is damn easy to do in America in a car that has 6-10 fatalities per billion miles your lifetime risk of dying or killing someone are up to 0.6% absolute not relative. To be crystal clear its the difference between rolling a 500 sided die vs a 125 sided die where if you roll a one your brains end up on the dash. Its a big difference and ascribing a difference in mortality to the drivers is equally poor. Its not just unfounded its counterfactual young drivers which largely can't afford Teslas are disproportionately involved in such crashes. https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/young-drivers#:~:text=In%202021%20drivers%2020%20and,of%20drivers%20in%20all%20crashes https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures-that-work/young-d.... Purely based on driver demographics one would expect fewer fatal crashes. Please explain an absolutely massive increase in fatal crashes.