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"their belongings" Having had my car prowled by homeless several times, and any yard decoration pillaged over the years, the objects in homeless camps are 90%

"their belongings" Having had my car prowled by homeless several times, and any yard decoration pillaged over the years, the objects in homeless camps are 90% stolen and 9% donated, and 1% actual belongings of a person

giraffe_lady 2y ago
The link through to the other article with specific examples is illuminating. It's a lot of medication and paperwork, and little relics of a more normal life before. Photos of loved ones, ashes of a dead spouse. Nasty work to post this comment here.
- aksss 2y ago
  Not nasty, a fair observation even if over generalizing. Let’s not shy away from the reality. Yes, mementos of past lives and paperwork do exist as a fractional though important part of the whole, but the point that by volume much of the material in an encampment is stolen is not nasty, but reflected by any visual tour. If you’ve been through the experience of having anything and everything gradually stolen out of your yard and car if it’s not bolted down, with the police not giving a flying F about your loss or the problem systemically, it’s annoying to listen to such deference and enablement. That frustration isn’t the best guiding light for policy, but being dismissive of it or shaming the contributing elements of society into not expressing the frustrations they live with is not a healthy way to address the problem either.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    > If you’ve been through the experience of having anything and everything gradually stolen out of your yard and car if it’s not bolted down, with the police not giving a flying F about your loss or the problem systemically, I've been through the experience of being homeless. I have some opinions about the degree to which the police cared about my problems too. I once stole a tarp out of a yard in the face of an incoming blizzard I was hoping to survive. My sympathies are never going to be with the yard guardians here.
    - aksss 2y ago
      Not many people would begrudge a tarp to a person in need, if asked, and the reality is that most theft of other peoples’ belongings absolutely doesn’t happen under such a circumstance. Framing the problem as such is a self-deluding and dishonest application of exceptional circumstances to the whole. Also, there’s probably at least a little room for reflection about how you wound up in the situation where your very survival depended upon stealing from others, why you chose not to knock on the door and ask, and the choices you made to get out of such life circumstances.
      - giraffe_lady 2y ago
        The first time I slept on the street was during middle school. The reflection we need to be doing is how we've created these circumstances, and why we allow people to continue to suffer them. This is your world too.
        NicholasGurr 2y ago
        [flagged]
  - lantry 2y ago
    > reflected by any visual tour Can you explain how to visually determine the ownership of a given item? What visual distinction is there between something that is rightfully theirs, something that was stolen, and something that was picked out of the trash?
    - aksss 2y ago
      e.g., a pile of empty exchangeable propane tanks, spraypainted bicycles. IYKYK
rmk 2y ago
The article talks about (well, at least, opens with) instances where Courts have ordered that belongings be restored, but where cities have failed to do so. One example is that of a woman losing her husband's ashes. I think it is callous to comment about how homeless people happen to be in possession of their belongings without at least reading the article. It is a fair comment, however, to ask if examples are cherrypicked to tug at the readers' heart strings, with an agenda in mind. I do think this article uses numerous tricks to promote this agenda. - Referring to residents as "housed residents", as if homeless people should be considered "residents" in neighborhoods they have no business being in, in the first place. - Saying that people are _usually_ forced to move without any connections to housing or support, but then following up with the qualification "sometimes" in the next sentence. - Citing an example of a lady whose daughter's picture was taken away, as well as her tent, during a cold winter, while not presenting the viewpoint of people who are affected by homelessness in their midst (people such as you). What about _their_ humanity?
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  > Referring to residents as "housed residents", as if homeless people should be considered "residents" in neighborhoods they have no business being in, in the first place. Well, why not? Are they residents of anywhere? If not, do you see how easily that slides into not needing to provide services for them? Not considering them deserving of anything, in fact? > while not presenting the viewpoint of people who are affected by homelessness in their midst We mostly get this, in most articles and conversations on this subject. Read nearly any article about it and count quotes by homeless people vs anyone else. Try it in this comment section. >And anyway what about their humanity? When I see a homeless person I think god what has been done to them. Not look what they are doing to me.
  - rmk 2y ago
    > Well, why not? Are they residents of anywhere? If not, do you see how easily that slides into not needing to provide services for them? Not considering them deserving of anything, in fact? They are not residents, period. They are vagrants, or transients. I do not agree that vagrants and transients lose property rights summarily, but the idea of calling them some type of "resident" is ridiculous.

giraffe_lady 2y ago

The link through to the other article with specific examples is illuminating. It's a lot of medication and paperwork, and little relics of a more normal life before. Photos of loved ones, ashes of a dead spouse. Nasty work to post this comment here.

aksss 2y ago
Not nasty, a fair observation even if over generalizing. Let’s not shy away from the reality. Yes, mementos of past lives and paperwork do exist as a fractional though important part of the whole, but the point that by volume much of the material in an encampment is stolen is not nasty, but reflected by any visual tour. If you’ve been through the experience of having anything and everything gradually stolen out of your yard and car if it’s not bolted down, with the police not giving a flying F about your loss or the problem systemically, it’s annoying to listen to such deference and enablement. That frustration isn’t the best guiding light for policy, but being dismissive of it or shaming the contributing elements of society into not expressing the frustrations they live with is not a healthy way to address the problem either.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  > If you’ve been through the experience of having anything and everything gradually stolen out of your yard and car if it’s not bolted down, with the police not giving a flying F about your loss or the problem systemically, I've been through the experience of being homeless. I have some opinions about the degree to which the police cared about my problems too. I once stole a tarp out of a yard in the face of an incoming blizzard I was hoping to survive. My sympathies are never going to be with the yard guardians here.
  - aksss 2y ago
    Not many people would begrudge a tarp to a person in need, if asked, and the reality is that most theft of other peoples’ belongings absolutely doesn’t happen under such a circumstance. Framing the problem as such is a self-deluding and dishonest application of exceptional circumstances to the whole. Also, there’s probably at least a little room for reflection about how you wound up in the situation where your very survival depended upon stealing from others, why you chose not to knock on the door and ask, and the choices you made to get out of such life circumstances.
    - giraffe_lady 2y ago
      The first time I slept on the street was during middle school. The reflection we need to be doing is how we've created these circumstances, and why we allow people to continue to suffer them. This is your world too.
      - NicholasGurr 2y ago
        [flagged]
- lantry 2y ago
  > reflected by any visual tour Can you explain how to visually determine the ownership of a given item? What visual distinction is there between something that is rightfully theirs, something that was stolen, and something that was picked out of the trash?
  - aksss 2y ago
    e.g., a pile of empty exchangeable propane tanks, spraypainted bicycles. IYKYK

rmk 2y ago

The article talks about (well, at least, opens with) instances where Courts have ordered that belongings be restored, but where cities have failed to do so. One example is that of a woman losing her husband's ashes. I think it is callous to comment about how homeless people happen to be in possession of their belongings without at least reading the article. It is a fair comment, however, to ask if examples are cherrypicked to tug at the readers' heart strings, with an agenda in mind. I do think this article uses numerous tricks to promote this agenda. - Referring to residents as "housed residents", as if homeless people should be considered "residents" in neighborhoods they have no business being in, in the first place. - Saying that people are _usually_ forced to move without any connections to housing or support, but then following up with the qualification "sometimes" in the next sentence. - Citing an example of a lady whose daughter's picture was taken away, as well as her tent, during a cold winter, while not presenting the viewpoint of people who are affected by homelessness in their midst (people such as you). What about _their_ humanity?

giraffe_lady 2y ago
> Referring to residents as "housed residents", as if homeless people should be considered "residents" in neighborhoods they have no business being in, in the first place. Well, why not? Are they residents of anywhere? If not, do you see how easily that slides into not needing to provide services for them? Not considering them deserving of anything, in fact? > while not presenting the viewpoint of people who are affected by homelessness in their midst We mostly get this, in most articles and conversations on this subject. Read nearly any article about it and count quotes by homeless people vs anyone else. Try it in this comment section. >And anyway what about their humanity? When I see a homeless person I think god what has been done to them. Not look what they are doing to me.
- rmk 2y ago
  > Well, why not? Are they residents of anywhere? If not, do you see how easily that slides into not needing to provide services for them? Not considering them deserving of anything, in fact? They are not residents, period. They are vagrants, or transients. I do not agree that vagrants and transients lose property rights summarily, but the idea of calling them some type of "resident" is ridiculous.