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Crashing wasn't the intent. And scraping is legal, as I remember per Linkedin case.

by betaby 2y ago

azemetre 2y ago
There’s a fine line between scrapping and DDOS’ing I’m sure. Just because you manufacture chemicals doesn’t mean you can legally dump your toxic waste anywhere you want (well shouldn’t be allowed to at least). You also shouldn’t be able to set your crawlers causing sites to fail.
- acedTrex 2y ago
  intent is likely very important to something like a ddos charge
  - iinnPP 2y ago
    Wilful ignorance is generally enough.
  - gameman144 2y ago
    Maybe, but impact can also make a pretty viable case. For instance, if you own a home you may have an easement on part of your property that grants other cars from your neighborhood access to pass through it rather than going the long way around. If Amazon were to build a warehouse on one side of the neighborhood, however, it's not obvious that they would be equally legally justified to send their whole fleet back and forth across it every day, even though their intent is certainly not to cause you any discomfort at all.
  - RF_Savage 2y ago
    So have the stressor and stress testing DDoS for hire sites changed to scraping yet?
    - acedTrex 2y ago
      The courts will likely be able to discern between "good faith" scraping and a DDoS for hire masquerading as scraping.
  - layer8 2y ago
    So is negligence. Or at least I would hope so.
- herbst 2y ago
  It's like these AI companies have to invent scraping spiders again from scratch. I don't know how often I have been ddosed to complete site failure and still ongoing by random scrapers just the last few months.
echelon 2y ago
Then you can feed them deliberately poisoned data. Send all of your pages through an adversarial LLM to pollute and twist the meaning of the underlying data.
- cess11 2y ago
  The scraper bots can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent.
franga2000 2y ago
If I make a physical robot and it runs someone over, I'm still liable, even though it was a delivery robot, not a running over people robot. If a bot sends so many requests that a site completely collapses, the owner is liable, even though it was a scraping bot and not a denial of service bot.
- stackghost 2y ago
  The law doesn't work by analogy.
  - maximinus_thrax 2y ago
    Except when it does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_(law)

Crashing wasn't the intent. And scraping is legal, as I remember per Linkedin case.

by betaby 2y ago

Crashing wasn't the intent. And scraping is legal, as I remember per Linkedin case.

There’s a fine line between scrapping and DDOS’ing I’m sure. Just because you manufacture chemicals doesn’t mean you can legally dump your toxic waste anywhere you want (well shouldn’t be allowed to at least). You also shouldn’t be able to set your crawlers causing sites to fail.

acedTrex 2y ago
intent is likely very important to something like a ddos charge
- iinnPP 2y ago
  Wilful ignorance is generally enough.
- gameman144 2y ago
  Maybe, but impact can also make a pretty viable case. For instance, if you own a home you may have an easement on part of your property that grants other cars from your neighborhood access to pass through it rather than going the long way around. If Amazon were to build a warehouse on one side of the neighborhood, however, it's not obvious that they would be equally legally justified to send their whole fleet back and forth across it every day, even though their intent is certainly not to cause you any discomfort at all.
- RF_Savage 2y ago
  So have the stressor and stress testing DDoS for hire sites changed to scraping yet?
  - acedTrex 2y ago
    The courts will likely be able to discern between "good faith" scraping and a DDoS for hire masquerading as scraping.
- layer8 2y ago
  So is negligence. Or at least I would hope so.
herbst 2y ago
It's like these AI companies have to invent scraping spiders again from scratch. I don't know how often I have been ddosed to complete site failure and still ongoing by random scrapers just the last few months.

echelon 2y ago

Then you can feed them deliberately poisoned data. Send all of your pages through an adversarial LLM to pollute and twist the meaning of the underlying data.

cess11 2y ago
The scraper bots can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

franga2000 2y ago

If I make a physical robot and it runs someone over, I'm still liable, even though it was a delivery robot, not a running over people robot. If a bot sends so many requests that a site completely collapses, the owner is liable, even though it was a scraping bot and not a denial of service bot.

stackghost 2y ago
The law doesn't work by analogy.
- maximinus_thrax 2y ago
  Except when it does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_(law) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_(law)