But that second argument of "saving grandma" isn't an issue in Europe either. You think we just abandoned old people with difficult health care needs to the dog

But that second argument of "saving grandma" isn't an issue in Europe either. You think we just abandoned old people with difficult health care needs to the dogs? They get first class care in most European countries - if anything, the issue is the reverse of what you describe. Most young people resent how much they pay in tax for a system they rarely use, while the elderly spend much of their geriatric life bed bound in hospital getting 24/7 care, all for free on the working person's dime despite them being long retired with no private health coverage. I'm typing this right now from a general practice surgery in the UK. The place is full the brim with older people getting local treatment, fast. I booked this morning and they're seeing me the same day. Much of what Americans get fed on the news about waiting lines is exaggerated from the days of Covid. For most services you get seen in a few weeks. My local allergy checks happened within a week. I broke my ankle playing rugby a few months ago and was seen, xrayed, got surgery, and was out the door within 48 hours. Some specialisms are still struggling to get through the backlog of patients, but it's just that - a backlog from when all the surgeries were closed and running on no funding because everything went into Covid-19 treatment. If you're so concerned about not getting the latest and greatest treatment, in the UK private and public health care have started to work progressively more hand in hand. My family are all covered by my private insurance through work. We get consultations online through an app, and they refer us to either and NHS surgery or a private one, depending on which is fastest and has the best health outcomes. That's a privilege not everyone has, but everyone gets the next best thing which is free universal health care covered by all tax payers - corporate and individual. This "decision" that you seems to think exists isn't one. We get the best of both worlds - a society where the poor don't fight tooth and nail for health care with the risk of becoming forever indebted and subjected to poverty, and the rich get whatever level of service they're willing to pay for. Personally, I think you're all fed a lot of propoganda by folks that make a lot of money out of the misery of your healthcare system.