4 ms·

I am happy to inform you that the United States also does not have school shootings on an "almost daily basis". Not trying to be pedantic here, but gross exagge

by yesco 2y ago

I am happy to inform you that the United States also does not have school shootings on an "almost daily basis". Not trying to be pedantic here, but gross exaggerations misrepresent the issue.

ceejayoz 2y ago
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/17/mass-shootings-school-shootings-2024/77044156007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/17/mass-s... > GVA has reported 971 cases of school shootings across the United States in 2024, with many of them having no victims or injuries. The database has tracked 112 school shootings in which a victim was injured or killed. Somewhere between ~3/day and ~0.3/day, depending what you count. Close enough.
- benmanns 2y ago
  Also keep in mind there’s something like 180 days per year of K-12 education in the US each year, so that’s something like 0.62 to 5.4 per school day.
- mattw2121 2y ago
  USA Today's reporting is wrong. There are not 971 cases of school shootings. There are about that many "school incidents". Some of those incidents, like the one listed below, are where police responded to a report of someone with a gun and never found the person or gun. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3096236 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3096236 Additionally, some of the 112 that did have a victim didn't even happen on campus. See this linked incident. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3091356 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3091356
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > Additionally, some of the 112 that did have a victim didn't even happen on campus. See this linked incident. Did you look at your link? > Student shot in leg during dispute in parking lot as school was dismissing That's a school shooting. The parking lot is absolutely part of the campus.
    - simoncion 2y ago
      > That's a school shooting. Ah. I now understand why school shooting numbers that people are quoting are so very high as of late. Shit like Columbine is a school shooting. Shit like that is a shooting that happened to happen at school. If the assailant had used a knife, would you be calling it a "school stabbing"? If you would, then I disagree with that characterization, too. For lots of folks, the term "school shooting" is strongly associated with the notion that a massacre happened... and not at all with the notion that some folks got into a heated argument, and one of them decided to attack the other with a weapon.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Not every school shooting is a mass shooting, no.
        simoncion 2y ago
        Based on this: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42552320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42552320> many things classified as "school shooting" are not what any reasonable person would think of when they hear the term. A kid shooting HIMSELF in the leg? Yes, it meets an extremely literal definition, but it would be incredibly stupid to -say- lock down a campus because of that.
    - mattw2121 2y ago
      Yes I have. An altercation between two people in a parking lot is different than a school shooting. Have you looked at the other items listed where there are victims? Multiple times I see that it was an altercation in a dorm room of a college. Sorry, I would consider that an altercation in a residence, not a school shooting. Here's another one that a kid shot himself in the leg and it's counted as a school shooting. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3092594 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3092594 These stats from GVA are inflated with respect to school shootings.
- cpitman 2y ago
  Looking at this database, they have a really loose definition of a "school shooting". I'm just going in order here, no picking and choosing. Here's the link if anyone wants to follow along: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/school-shootings https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/school-shootings 1. A teacher had a gun in their possession, there was no shooting: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3099438 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3099438 2. An adult robbery suspect was found by police on a high school campus, fled the police, and was then shot somewhere else: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098506 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098506 3. Parent showed a gun during an argument with the school (this one is closer to bad, but still, no shooting): https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098581 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098581 4. Teenager brought gun to a baseball game: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098572 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098572 5. Adult found trespassing on campus with cocaine and a modified flare gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098062 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098062 6. Students fought and showed a gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098023 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098023 7. Student in possession of a gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097870 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097870 8. Student in possession of a gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097949 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097949 9. Adult bicyclist dropped a handgun in parking lot of campus while student basketball game was underway inside: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3095500 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3095500 10. Abundant Life Christian School 1 out of the first 10 being what most people would call a "school shooting" brings that 971 cases number into question.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    That page has a CSV export; it's ~2000 rows. They appear to have correctly filtered out the "Non-Shooting Incident" sort of results from it (which your picks appear to mostly be) to arrive at the ~900 numbers.
    - cpitman 2y ago
      I've also been looking at the export, but I don't see any way to filter down to "Shooting incidents". Just sampling the first 10, 10% of 2000 is looking like way less. Were you able to find a way to validate the 900 number?
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
  Depends how you define school shooting as well. Click around on https://www.chds.us/sssc/data-map/ https://www.chds.us/sssc/data-map/ . There are numerous incidents like "Teacher killed himself in classroom after school hours" "Shots fired in the evening, no one injured".
  - N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
    Also, if you go into that data a total of 260 Students were fatally wounded by a firearm from 1970 to 2022 during the school day. If this is accurate, the odds of being fatally shot as a student during school hours is extremely low, about 1 in 10,000,000 over the span of this data collection. Higher odds than winning a powerball jackpot, but, in context, an extremely rare event. It wouldn't be a stretch to hypothesize that the administrators forcing students through metal detectors, doing active shooter drills, etc, are doing more net harm than the thing that they are attempting to defend against (as a purely utilitarian calculation).
- wl 2y ago
  Issues of what constitutes a "school shooting" aside, my personal experience with GVA is that their database contains duplicate incidents and they will not actually correct those errors when pointed out.
razakel 2y ago
There were 112 school shootings where someone was injured or killed this year.
dmoy 2y ago
It really depends on the definition of "school shooting". If you mean the type that makes national headlines where someone shoots a bunch of random people, then no it's not daily In 2023 it was three events: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2023-active-shooter-report-062124.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2023-active-shooter-repo... If by "school shooting" you include all the people shot in or right next to schools, then yea it's almost daily (or at least every couple days or so). That includes fights escalating to guns, targeted shootings of single people due to whatever revenge.

by yesco 2y ago

I am happy to inform you that the United States also does not have school shootings on an "almost daily basis". Not trying to be pedantic here, but gross exaggerations misrepresent the issue.

ceejayoz 2y ago

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/17/mass-shootings-school-shootings-2024/77044156007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/12/17/mass-s... > GVA has reported 971 cases of school shootings across the United States in 2024, with many of them having no victims or injuries. The database has tracked 112 school shootings in which a victim was injured or killed. Somewhere between ~3/day and ~0.3/day, depending what you count. Close enough.

benmanns 2y ago
Also keep in mind there’s something like 180 days per year of K-12 education in the US each year, so that’s something like 0.62 to 5.4 per school day.
mattw2121 2y ago
USA Today's reporting is wrong. There are not 971 cases of school shootings. There are about that many "school incidents". Some of those incidents, like the one listed below, are where police responded to a report of someone with a gun and never found the person or gun. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3096236 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3096236 Additionally, some of the 112 that did have a victim didn't even happen on campus. See this linked incident. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3091356 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3091356
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > Additionally, some of the 112 that did have a victim didn't even happen on campus. See this linked incident. Did you look at your link? > Student shot in leg during dispute in parking lot as school was dismissing That's a school shooting. The parking lot is absolutely part of the campus.
  - simoncion 2y ago
    > That's a school shooting. Ah. I now understand why school shooting numbers that people are quoting are so very high as of late. Shit like Columbine is a school shooting. Shit like that is a shooting that happened to happen at school. If the assailant had used a knife, would you be calling it a "school stabbing"? If you would, then I disagree with that characterization, too. For lots of folks, the term "school shooting" is strongly associated with the notion that a massacre happened... and not at all with the notion that some folks got into a heated argument, and one of them decided to attack the other with a weapon.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Not every school shooting is a mass shooting, no.
      - simoncion 2y ago
        Based on this: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42552320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42552320> many things classified as "school shooting" are not what any reasonable person would think of when they hear the term. A kid shooting HIMSELF in the leg? Yes, it meets an extremely literal definition, but it would be incredibly stupid to -say- lock down a campus because of that.
  - mattw2121 2y ago
    Yes I have. An altercation between two people in a parking lot is different than a school shooting. Have you looked at the other items listed where there are victims? Multiple times I see that it was an altercation in a dorm room of a college. Sorry, I would consider that an altercation in a residence, not a school shooting. Here's another one that a kid shot himself in the leg and it's counted as a school shooting. https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3092594 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3092594 These stats from GVA are inflated with respect to school shootings.
cpitman 2y ago
Looking at this database, they have a really loose definition of a "school shooting". I'm just going in order here, no picking and choosing. Here's the link if anyone wants to follow along: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/school-shootings https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/school-shootings 1. A teacher had a gun in their possession, there was no shooting: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3099438 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3099438 2. An adult robbery suspect was found by police on a high school campus, fled the police, and was then shot somewhere else: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098506 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098506 3. Parent showed a gun during an argument with the school (this one is closer to bad, but still, no shooting): https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098581 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098581 4. Teenager brought gun to a baseball game: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098572 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098572 5. Adult found trespassing on campus with cocaine and a modified flare gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098062 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098062 6. Students fought and showed a gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098023 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3098023 7. Student in possession of a gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097870 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097870 8. Student in possession of a gun: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097949 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3097949 9. Adult bicyclist dropped a handgun in parking lot of campus while student basketball game was underway inside: https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3095500 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/3095500 10. Abundant Life Christian School 1 out of the first 10 being what most people would call a "school shooting" brings that 971 cases number into question.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  That page has a CSV export; it's ~2000 rows. They appear to have correctly filtered out the "Non-Shooting Incident" sort of results from it (which your picks appear to mostly be) to arrive at the ~900 numbers.
  - cpitman 2y ago
    I've also been looking at the export, but I don't see any way to filter down to "Shooting incidents". Just sampling the first 10, 10% of 2000 is looking like way less. Were you able to find a way to validate the 900 number?
N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
Depends how you define school shooting as well. Click around on https://www.chds.us/sssc/data-map/ https://www.chds.us/sssc/data-map/ . There are numerous incidents like "Teacher killed himself in classroom after school hours" "Shots fired in the evening, no one injured".
- N2yhWNXQN3k9 2y ago
  Also, if you go into that data a total of 260 Students were fatally wounded by a firearm from 1970 to 2022 during the school day. If this is accurate, the odds of being fatally shot as a student during school hours is extremely low, about 1 in 10,000,000 over the span of this data collection. Higher odds than winning a powerball jackpot, but, in context, an extremely rare event. It wouldn't be a stretch to hypothesize that the administrators forcing students through metal detectors, doing active shooter drills, etc, are doing more net harm than the thing that they are attempting to defend against (as a purely utilitarian calculation).
wl 2y ago
Issues of what constitutes a "school shooting" aside, my personal experience with GVA is that their database contains duplicate incidents and they will not actually correct those errors when pointed out.

razakel 2y ago

There were 112 school shootings where someone was injured or killed this year.

dmoy 2y ago

It really depends on the definition of "school shooting". If you mean the type that makes national headlines where someone shoots a bunch of random people, then no it's not daily In 2023 it was three events: https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2023-active-shooter-report-062124.pdf/view https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2023-active-shooter-repo... If by "school shooting" you include all the people shot in or right next to schools, then yea it's almost daily (or at least every couple days or so). That includes fights escalating to guns, targeted shootings of single people due to whatever revenge.