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Apple routinely rejects apps that try tactics like this. Otherwise it'd be an easy way around the "Ask App Not To Track" prompt.
by twoodfin 2y ago
Apple routinely rejects apps that try tactics like this. Otherwise it'd be an easy way around the "Ask App Not To Track" prompt.
- bilbo0s 2y agoI don't know man? I have to think if Apple were mandated to be more open to competitors they would not be allowed to reject apps on this basis. This problem is just multifaceted and far reaching. Not sure how to go about solving it?
- gruez 2y ago>Apple routinely rejects apps that try tactics like this. This is going to be irrelevant in the EU once sideloading gets popular.
- dvdkon 2y agoThankfully the EU also has legislation that makes "share data to use" tactics illegal, so this shouldn't be a problem.
- gruez 2y agoHow are you going to enforce this against app developers outside of the EU?
- silvestrov 2y agoFacebook likes getting some of that sweet money from EU advertisers. EU can block payments from EU to Facebook.
- gruez 2y agoDifferent threat model. You're thinking of big tech companies like Meta, who are big enough to warrant regulatory attention. I'm thinking of fly-by-night shady app developers that make flashlight/weather/"security"/IoT/game apps, that fly under the radar because they're too small.
- notpushkin 2y agoNot really the kind of apps people would sideload?
- gruez 2y agoPeople might not sideload a flashlight app, but they're probably going to sideload an IoT app (especially if they bought the corresponding product first) and games (especially if their friends are peer pressuring them into it).
- nrabulinski 2y agoThen the EU can stop them from selling their products to EU customers, since as soon as you’re providing services to EU customers you’re obliged to play by EU rules
- gruez 2y ago>Then the EU can stop them from selling their products to EU customers So you want the EU to play whack-a-mole with fly by night IoT vendors, some of which might be shipping directly from China? Or do you want to fix this with even more regulation, like requiring licenses to import IoT products or whatever?
- yunohn 2y agoIn a discussion thread about Meta (which follows EU law) launching an app in the EU using their alt App Store laws; why would you further move the goalpost just for arguments sake?
- gruez 2y ago>In a discussion thread about Meta 1. characterizing this as a "discussion thread about Meta" is a stretch. While the OP is about meta specifically, it's fairly obvious that as of a comments up, the discussion is about the behaviors of app developers in general, rather than what Meta is specifically doing. 2. Discussing unintended side effects isn't "moving the goalposts". If we're talking about the student debt crisis, and someone brings up the idea of student loan forgiveness, it's not "moving the goalposts" to bring up concerns about inflation.
- ben_w 2y agoFines equivalent to 10% of global revenue, and extradition orders.
- dvdkon 2y agoUnless I'm missing something, Apple only has to provide these new requested APIs to users in the EU. I presume Apple will keep everything as-is in other countries, just like with app sideloading.
- axkdev 2y agoCitation? I think this is not true. The EU law seems to just require explicit consent. So websites and apps can ask whether user wants to share data to keep using them for free or pay a subscription fee.
- silvanocerza 2y agoArticle 7.4 and recital 43 of GDPR cover that. Article 7 https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-7-gdpr/ Recital 43 https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-43/ Those two in combination stop companies processing data for unrelated task to the services they provide. And it's indeed true and already been applied, see this: https://www.digitalguardian.com/blog/google-fined-57m-data-protection-watchdog-over-gdpr-violations https://www.digitalguardian.com/blog/google-fined-57m-data-p...
- dvdkon 2y agoA "consent or pay" model is sadly widely used, but it's at least very controversial and probably illegal. No data protection agency has gone on record to say it's definitely illegal and no fines have been given out IIRC, but the EDPB had some tactfully negative things to say about it [0], and the Czech DPA has ordered at least one company to cease the practice in a preliminary ruling [1]. (Which the company seems to be completely ignoring, as is sadly common.) [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_or_pay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_or_pay [1]: https://uoou.gov.cz/urad/povinne-zverejnovane-informace/svobodny-pristupu-k-informacim/informace-poskytnute-na-zadost/informace-poskytnute-na-zadost-v-roce-2024/poskytnuta-informace-dne-31-mesic-2024 https://uoou.gov.cz/urad/povinne-zverejnovane-informace/svob...
- ImJamal 2y agoWhat makes you think it will get popular? Android has had it forever and almost nobody uses it.
- tonyedgecombe 2y agoI do wonder if Apple could have saved itself a lot of aggravation by allowing side loading from the start.
- Bobbyddxxd 2y agoFor the people who choose to sideload, yes. How's that an issue?
- briandear 2y agoWhy would a normal person want to sideload?
- beeflet 2y agoI sideload on android because the apps on f-droid are better than google play. So I would imagine the same would apply to iOS. With sideloading you can run open-source software that works in a straightforward way and isn't intentionally crippled so that it can be monetized. The last time I used iOS I found the app store quality was also really bad. People listing "free apps" that immediately require you to start an expensive monthly subscription to use. The effect on the mobile games industry has been so disastrous that people would rather carry an entirely separate mobile device on them just to play "real games". On google play or the app store you can play a mobile version of minecraft with microtransactions for $7. With sideloading you can just play a full version of the more popular java edition PC game, for free. (pojavlauncherteam.github.io). I think that sums up the sideloading experience.
- rpdillon 2y agoBecause it's crazy to think that the two dominant app stores are going to have policies that exactly match people's needs, and that they'll implement those policies competently. Syncing files with Syncthing is no longer possible on Android because the Android team won't fix the performance of storage access framework, for example. This is 100% on Google, not Syncthing. But I can still use SyncThing-fork because it's on FDroid. Similarly for the Fossify apps, Quillnote, KeepassDX, Privacy Browser, and dozens of others. Apple will never put in the effort to make a community that thrives on sharing open source apps that are not profit driven. It's simply not in their DNA. And I don't want to have to live in a world where every developer that wants to make a mobile app has to pay a tithe to the overlords of Google and Apple. They will always claim that they're fixing security problems by acting as an intermediary, but there's no way for them to do that without replacing my choices with theirs, and nothing in Google's or Apple's decision-making history indicates they're better equipped to make decisions governing my machines than I am. So why would a normal person want to sideload? Because they don't want Google and Apple telling them what software they can install on devices they purchased.
- milesskorpen 2y agoIt's not going to get popular.