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>The two sides are at an impasse: Amazon needs Broccoli to furnish them with ideas for a new Bond movie, but Broccoli doesn’t want to make a new Bond movie with

by briga 2y ago

>The two sides are at an impasse: Amazon needs Broccoli to furnish them with ideas for a new Bond movie, but Broccoli doesn’t want to make a new Bond movie with Amazon. No offense to the Broccoli family or the franchise but these movies aren't exactly full of original new ideas. They've been rehashing the same formula since the 60s. It doesn't take a creative genius to come up with these plots and I'm pretty sure ChatGPT could generate new ones just as effectively

choeger 2y ago
It's Bond. A certain resemblance is necessary. It doesn't suffice to add a few Martinis here, a PPK there, and end with a showdown against a super villain involving tech gadgets. The movie also needs sexism and humor, at least. Seriously, reinventing Bond while modernizing it but keeping it a Bond movie is challenging. A challenge that people should accept.
- LtWorf 2y ago
  Bah throw it away. The books are racist AF and the whole plot i about how imperialism is actually wonderful.
  - Animats 2y ago
    Ah, the good old days of "Take up the white man's burden." Bond belongs to the era of Kipling, when the sun never set on the British Empire and the broad-backed soldiers of the Queen ruled the world. (Hm. A Bond movie set in 1890... That might work. Read Kipling's "Miss Youghal's Sais" for ideas.[1]) [1] https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/miss-youghals-sais.htm https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/miss-youghals-sais.htm
    - LtWorf 2y ago
      Bond was born outdated when the british empire was gone. Now it's really time to invent something else instead of keep doing the same stuff over and over. No matter how much the visitors of this website might downvote me :D
      - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
        > Now it's really time to invent something else instead of keep doing the same stuff over and over. No matter how much the visitors of this website might downvote me :D Be fine with the fact that you are not the target audience of the James Bond movies.
        LtWorf 2y ago
        Also you are downvoted. How dare you to say such an heretic thing? Hehehehehe
ubermonkey 2y ago
Moreover, there are almost zero examples of Eon films where the Eon ideas were good. The films are pretty straight-ahead adaptations of Fleming novels through _Live and Let Die_. After that, they were out of books they had rights to, and the films take a serious plunge in terms of actual quality. For my money, the only genuinely watchable non-adaptation example after LALD is _Goldeneye_. I mean, note the huge jump in quality when Craig came on when they finally DID have a Fleming novel they could work from again, right?
- cjpearson 2y ago
  No love for _The Spy Who Loved Me_? Maybe Dalton isn't your favorite Bond, but his entries are at least par for the course rather than a serious plunge. I'd agree that the last 25 years has given us a lot of duds and _Casino Royale_ is the main exception. However, I think it's more likely that Purvis and Wade are the issue here, as the 1977-1997 era showed that Eon could make a decent original Bond.
  - ubermonkey 2y ago
    Not really, no. It was pretty weak sauce aside from the skiing intro. I found both Dalton outings pretty silly, though one of us gave us an early appearance by Benicio Del Toro. Dalton deserved better, as did Brosnan modulo _Goldeneye_, which is for me a top-5 entry. I disagree on your conclusion re: "decent original Bond" between '77 and '97, but I'd argue that the success of _Skyfall_ and _No Time To Die_ does show they got around to it.
- mrob 2y ago
  I found Casino Royal to be a huge disappointment. As far as I'm concerned, the whole concept of "spy action thriller" is inherently ridiculous, so you might as well go all in on the wacky cartoon hijinks and have some fun with it. The franchise peaked with Die Another Day.
  - ubermonkey 2y ago
    That's definitely a take, but it's not a terribly popular or interesting one.
3D30497420 2y ago
This was my thought reading through the article. It makes it sound like the Broccoli family is this enlightened steward of this great and hallowed tradition. But its James Bond. It has been rarely more than shallow entertainment, and at its worst is dated, sexist, and tasteless. Also, while I understand everyone piling on Amazon for producing bad or mediocre shows (Rings of Power), they do have a number of pretty solid shows as well (Fleabag, Fallout, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, partially The Expanse, etc.). It is not as if other streaming networks are only producing solid hits.
karaterobot 2y ago
The Daniel Craig Bond movies were a pretty significant reinvention, much welcomed and generally pretty good, with the highs much higher than the lows were low. I don't think it's fair or accurate at all to say that Casino Royale, Skyfall, or even No Time To Die were of a piece with the 60s movies in tone or style.
daedalus_f 2y ago
I wouldn't be suprised if this attitude is indeed prevalent at Amazon and across studio executives as a whole. But the lack of respect for the process of crafting a good story seems to me to be why all these studios keep churning out rubbish that is eating away their bottom lines and destroying the very expensive franchises they keep buying then end up winding down.

by briga 2y ago

choeger 2y ago

It's Bond. A certain resemblance is necessary. It doesn't suffice to add a few Martinis here, a PPK there, and end with a showdown against a super villain involving tech gadgets. The movie also needs sexism and humor, at least. Seriously, reinventing Bond while modernizing it but keeping it a Bond movie is challenging. A challenge that people should accept.

LtWorf 2y ago
Bah throw it away. The books are racist AF and the whole plot i about how imperialism is actually wonderful.
- Animats 2y ago
  Ah, the good old days of "Take up the white man's burden." Bond belongs to the era of Kipling, when the sun never set on the British Empire and the broad-backed soldiers of the Queen ruled the world. (Hm. A Bond movie set in 1890... That might work. Read Kipling's "Miss Youghal's Sais" for ideas.[1]) [1] https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/miss-youghals-sais.htm https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/miss-youghals-sais.htm
  - LtWorf 2y ago
    Bond was born outdated when the british empire was gone. Now it's really time to invent something else instead of keep doing the same stuff over and over. No matter how much the visitors of this website might downvote me :D
    - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
      > Now it's really time to invent something else instead of keep doing the same stuff over and over. No matter how much the visitors of this website might downvote me :D Be fine with the fact that you are not the target audience of the James Bond movies.
      - LtWorf 2y ago
        Also you are downvoted. How dare you to say such an heretic thing? Hehehehehe

ubermonkey 2y ago

Moreover, there are almost zero examples of Eon films where the Eon ideas were good. The films are pretty straight-ahead adaptations of Fleming novels through _Live and Let Die_. After that, they were out of books they had rights to, and the films take a serious plunge in terms of actual quality. For my money, the only genuinely watchable non-adaptation example after LALD is _Goldeneye_. I mean, note the huge jump in quality when Craig came on when they finally DID have a Fleming novel they could work from again, right?

cjpearson 2y ago
No love for _The Spy Who Loved Me_? Maybe Dalton isn't your favorite Bond, but his entries are at least par for the course rather than a serious plunge. I'd agree that the last 25 years has given us a lot of duds and _Casino Royale_ is the main exception. However, I think it's more likely that Purvis and Wade are the issue here, as the 1977-1997 era showed that Eon could make a decent original Bond.
- ubermonkey 2y ago
  Not really, no. It was pretty weak sauce aside from the skiing intro. I found both Dalton outings pretty silly, though one of us gave us an early appearance by Benicio Del Toro. Dalton deserved better, as did Brosnan modulo _Goldeneye_, which is for me a top-5 entry. I disagree on your conclusion re: "decent original Bond" between '77 and '97, but I'd argue that the success of _Skyfall_ and _No Time To Die_ does show they got around to it.
mrob 2y ago
I found Casino Royal to be a huge disappointment. As far as I'm concerned, the whole concept of "spy action thriller" is inherently ridiculous, so you might as well go all in on the wacky cartoon hijinks and have some fun with it. The franchise peaked with Die Another Day.
- ubermonkey 2y ago
  That's definitely a take, but it's not a terribly popular or interesting one.

3D30497420 2y ago

This was my thought reading through the article. It makes it sound like the Broccoli family is this enlightened steward of this great and hallowed tradition. But its James Bond. It has been rarely more than shallow entertainment, and at its worst is dated, sexist, and tasteless. Also, while I understand everyone piling on Amazon for producing bad or mediocre shows (Rings of Power), they do have a number of pretty solid shows as well (Fleabag, Fallout, The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, partially The Expanse, etc.). It is not as if other streaming networks are only producing solid hits.

karaterobot 2y ago

The Daniel Craig Bond movies were a pretty significant reinvention, much welcomed and generally pretty good, with the highs much higher than the lows were low. I don't think it's fair or accurate at all to say that Casino Royale, Skyfall, or even No Time To Die were of a piece with the 60s movies in tone or style.

daedalus_f 2y ago

I wouldn't be suprised if this attitude is indeed prevalent at Amazon and across studio executives as a whole. But the lack of respect for the process of crafting a good story seems to me to be why all these studios keep churning out rubbish that is eating away their bottom lines and destroying the very expensive franchises they keep buying then end up winding down.