6 ms·

> The International Chess Federation (FIDE) has now relaxed its dress code to allow "elegant minor deviations". > Those deviations "may, in particular, include

by latexr 2y ago

> The International Chess Federation (FIDE) has now relaxed its dress code to allow "elegant minor deviations". > Those deviations "may, in particular, include appropriate jeans matching the jacket", the new rules state. > (…) > "Special assistants" will be on hand to help judges decide whether players' outfits are acceptable, according to Mr Dvorkovich. This whole saga is so unbelievably stupid. What’s the deal with the overly strict dress code in the first place?

aczerepinski 2y ago
Gives me the impression that you aren’t even allowed to play chess if you aren’t a nerd.
netdevphoenix 2y ago
Sounds like a power move by the FIDE to project dominance over its members and a way to control its public perception
- iambateman 2y ago
  Well, they had to straight back down to keep Magnus, so it makes sense that they're trying to project a little control.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Yes, indeed. And all because the most important thing they are really protecting is that they are needed at all, when the reality is that they should be unceremoniously ejected from all such endeavors, once and for all. True democracy should be present in all organizations, guided by compassion for all its members and the communities they affect. It's time to retire the 'old guard'.
MrMcCall 2y ago
Old people rarely like to see things change from what they deemed 'acceptable' in their life. As people get older, most people tend to become more 'conservative' in their view of how things are changing. It is usually much worse in people of means, who are the people that have the money and connections to be FIDE or govt or business leaders, in other words: 'money people'. All such positions involve much politicking, which always involves ingratiating their own views on how the situation should be presented and seen. Those sorts of people are always superfluous inefficiencies that gum up progress. The sooner we remove them from positions of influence, the sooner we can begin making this world a better place for one and all.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mongol 2y ago
Tradition? I have no idea. But many events come with a dress code, and in many sports it is pretty strict even though it does not neccessarily have to be. I can see it both ways - the way you dress have nothing to do with how you play. But on the other hand, if there is supposed to be a certain atmosphere and mood at the event, a dress code is not unheard of. I recall when Kenya (?) wanted to play with sleeveless jerseys in the FIFA World Cup, similar to have like they have in basketball. That did not work out - they had to add sleeves in short order. EDIT: It was Cameroon in the Africa Cup. Link: https://www.puma-catchup.com/africa-cup-perfect-stage-scandals/ https://www.puma-catchup.com/africa-cup-perfect-stage-scanda...
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  I find 'tradition' to nearly always be merely an excuse to keep acting like a purblind fool. They're just a bunch of self-superior non-thinkers who don't give a damn about anyone from other cultures. They tend to lack curiosity or compassion, so, as such, they are really just a bunch of dullards.
- tacone 2y ago
  Not tradition. From what I got over the internet, apparently (normal) jeans where allowed in the past and a lot of players were wearing them.
- bfdm 2y ago
  As is the explanation all too often, dress codes are simply exclusionary. They're meant to exclude those that do not conform (whether or why they cannot conform or refuse to is secondary). All the other bluster about tradition and standards or whatever else is all just covering fire to exclusionary policy. Whether that be race based, gender based, class based or otherwise, it's a basis for excluding or removing those outside your group who can't or won't bend to your requirements. The one and only exception I know of to this is safety dress codes, like loose long hair or garments around certain machinery that could catch those. The rest can go to hell.
  - mongol 2y ago
    What would you say about a dress code at a wedding or a funeral? Are they decided in order to exclude?
nashashmi 2y ago
It’s to throw out people coming in tank tops. They don’t have a long list of donts. They have a short list of do’s. Do wear formal clothing like a dress coat and dress pants.
- latexr 2y ago
  > They don’t have a long list of donts. They have a short list of do’s. That is incorrect. They do have a list of don’ts. See 3b and 3d. https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
endoblast 2y ago
>appropriate jeans matching the jacket Double denim?
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Canadian Tuxedo.
- blipvert 2y ago
  Wouldn’t want to upset the (ahem) Status Quo.
- ycombinatrix 2y ago
  Of course. How else would one match the jeans?
yodsanklai 2y ago
Lots of sports have dress codes. Having jeans matching jackets isn't more stupid than let say only "white or blue" gis in Judo, or only-white attire in some tennis tournaments. It's part of the folklore and many people are attached to traditions. There are also many precedents of athletes challenging the dress-code, I can think of Serena Williams at French Tennis Open. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/16/sport/serena-williams-iconic-catsuit-french-open-spt-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/16/sport/serena-williams-ico...
- EA-3167 2y ago
  In what world is chess a sport? It's a board game, they are not athletes, and marketing chess as a sport just comes across as either a financial decision, or delusional to me. The fact that chess isn't a sport doesn't make it any less valid or valuable, any less respectable, but it does mean that comparing it to tennis is downright odd.
  - coliveira 2y ago
    Who are you to decide if chess is a sport or not? The practitioners think it is, so that's what matters.
    - freehorse 2y ago
      It does not matter if we say it is a sport or not, it is not a sensible argument because the point of what uniforms are allowed and what not in sports have either to do with functionality (certain pieces of clothes can improve performance, and rules have to assert which are the specific bounds for that) or advertising/other reasons (a lot of which are actually _bad_ reasons, see certain female dress codes). These arguments have nothing to do with chess, so it makes no sense to apply this line of argumentation here.
      - yodsanklai 2y ago
        Uniforms in sports have often to do with tradition (on top of the aspects you mentioned). Look at Golf, Tennis or Judo/BJJ dress codes for instance. Most sports have a dress code and if you look into the details, there are often arbitrary elements. Many other social activities which you may not call sport have dress codes too. On the top of my head, I can think of Bridge or Snooker. Nothing really fundamentally peculiar with Chess. I don't blame Carlsen for asking to review the rules though.
Loudergood 2y ago
You do need to have a minimum though. Otherwise you get comedy like this at a Magic the Gathering tournament. (warning lots of plumbers crack) https://imgur.com/a/grand-prix-richmond-crackstyle-SjcgE https://imgur.com/a/grand-prix-richmond-crackstyle-SjcgE
- bflesch 2y ago
  Your argument is very weak. The picture you've shared is at least two decades old at this point. And people showing their asscracks can also happen with suits, especially if someone is not used to wearing a suit often (e.g. it's not perfectly fit to their body shape). On top of that if organizers are hoarding hundreds of people in what looks like a multi-purpose location on the cheapest chairs/tables possible, then why should these people who need to sit and concentrate for many hours be forced to do it in expensive/rarely-used clothing.
  - ycombinatrix 2y ago
    >people showing their asscracks can also happen with suits, especially if someone is not used to wearing a suit citation needed
- latexr 2y ago
  > You do need to have a minimum though. But my question was precisely why is the minimum so high? Sure, maybe don’t allow someone to play naked or with a t-shirt stamped with gore or racist imagery. But jeans? Come on. Looking at the rules, I wonder if they’d also, for example, prevent a man from playing in a skirt that would otherwise be acceptable for a woman. https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_...
sys_64738 2y ago
A denim vest? This sounds like an episode of Seinfeld.
michaelt 2y ago
> What’s the deal with the overly strict dress code in the first place? Some organisations have a great deal of cultural inertia If I start a club that requires all members to wear red trousers, then people who hate red trousers won't join, while people who love them will join in great numbers. Members who are ambivalent about red trousers won't feel comfortable enforcing the rules, so they won't take the junior positions of power that lead to senior positions of power. I'm pretty sure this is why London still have some private members' clubs that will insist on all men wearing a tie.

by latexr 2y ago

aczerepinski 2y ago

Gives me the impression that you aren’t even allowed to play chess if you aren’t a nerd.

netdevphoenix 2y ago

Sounds like a power move by the FIDE to project dominance over its members and a way to control its public perception

iambateman 2y ago
Well, they had to straight back down to keep Magnus, so it makes sense that they're trying to project a little control.
MrMcCall 2y ago
Yes, indeed. And all because the most important thing they are really protecting is that they are needed at all, when the reality is that they should be unceremoniously ejected from all such endeavors, once and for all. True democracy should be present in all organizations, guided by compassion for all its members and the communities they affect. It's time to retire the 'old guard'.

MrMcCall 2y ago

Old people rarely like to see things change from what they deemed 'acceptable' in their life. As people get older, most people tend to become more 'conservative' in their view of how things are changing. It is usually much worse in people of means, who are the people that have the money and connections to be FIDE or govt or business leaders, in other words: 'money people'. All such positions involve much politicking, which always involves ingratiating their own views on how the situation should be presented and seen. Those sorts of people are always superfluous inefficiencies that gum up progress. The sooner we remove them from positions of influence, the sooner we can begin making this world a better place for one and all.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mongol 2y ago

Tradition? I have no idea. But many events come with a dress code, and in many sports it is pretty strict even though it does not neccessarily have to be. I can see it both ways - the way you dress have nothing to do with how you play. But on the other hand, if there is supposed to be a certain atmosphere and mood at the event, a dress code is not unheard of. I recall when Kenya (?) wanted to play with sleeveless jerseys in the FIFA World Cup, similar to have like they have in basketball. That did not work out - they had to add sleeves in short order. EDIT: It was Cameroon in the Africa Cup. Link: https://www.puma-catchup.com/africa-cup-perfect-stage-scandals/ https://www.puma-catchup.com/africa-cup-perfect-stage-scanda...

MrMcCall 2y ago
I find 'tradition' to nearly always be merely an excuse to keep acting like a purblind fool. They're just a bunch of self-superior non-thinkers who don't give a damn about anyone from other cultures. They tend to lack curiosity or compassion, so, as such, they are really just a bunch of dullards.
tacone 2y ago
Not tradition. From what I got over the internet, apparently (normal) jeans where allowed in the past and a lot of players were wearing them.
bfdm 2y ago
As is the explanation all too often, dress codes are simply exclusionary. They're meant to exclude those that do not conform (whether or why they cannot conform or refuse to is secondary). All the other bluster about tradition and standards or whatever else is all just covering fire to exclusionary policy. Whether that be race based, gender based, class based or otherwise, it's a basis for excluding or removing those outside your group who can't or won't bend to your requirements. The one and only exception I know of to this is safety dress codes, like loose long hair or garments around certain machinery that could catch those. The rest can go to hell.
- mongol 2y ago
  What would you say about a dress code at a wedding or a funeral? Are they decided in order to exclude?

nashashmi 2y ago

It’s to throw out people coming in tank tops. They don’t have a long list of donts. They have a short list of do’s. Do wear formal clothing like a dress coat and dress pants.

latexr 2y ago
> They don’t have a long list of donts. They have a short list of do’s. That is incorrect. They do have a list of don’ts. See 3b and 3d. https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

endoblast 2y ago

>appropriate jeans matching the jacket Double denim?

lupusreal 2y ago
Canadian Tuxedo.
blipvert 2y ago
Wouldn’t want to upset the (ahem) Status Quo.
ycombinatrix 2y ago
Of course. How else would one match the jeans?

yodsanklai 2y ago

Lots of sports have dress codes. Having jeans matching jackets isn't more stupid than let say only "white or blue" gis in Judo, or only-white attire in some tennis tournaments. It's part of the folklore and many people are attached to traditions. There are also many precedents of athletes challenging the dress-code, I can think of Serena Williams at French Tennis Open. https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/16/sport/serena-williams-iconic-catsuit-french-open-spt-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/16/sport/serena-williams-ico...

EA-3167 2y ago
In what world is chess a sport? It's a board game, they are not athletes, and marketing chess as a sport just comes across as either a financial decision, or delusional to me. The fact that chess isn't a sport doesn't make it any less valid or valuable, any less respectable, but it does mean that comparing it to tennis is downright odd.
- coliveira 2y ago
  Who are you to decide if chess is a sport or not? The practitioners think it is, so that's what matters.
  - freehorse 2y ago
    It does not matter if we say it is a sport or not, it is not a sensible argument because the point of what uniforms are allowed and what not in sports have either to do with functionality (certain pieces of clothes can improve performance, and rules have to assert which are the specific bounds for that) or advertising/other reasons (a lot of which are actually _bad_ reasons, see certain female dress codes). These arguments have nothing to do with chess, so it makes no sense to apply this line of argumentation here.
    - yodsanklai 2y ago
      Uniforms in sports have often to do with tradition (on top of the aspects you mentioned). Look at Golf, Tennis or Judo/BJJ dress codes for instance. Most sports have a dress code and if you look into the details, there are often arbitrary elements. Many other social activities which you may not call sport have dress codes too. On the top of my head, I can think of Bridge or Snooker. Nothing really fundamentally peculiar with Chess. I don't blame Carlsen for asking to review the rules though.

Loudergood 2y ago

You do need to have a minimum though. Otherwise you get comedy like this at a Magic the Gathering tournament. (warning lots of plumbers crack) https://imgur.com/a/grand-prix-richmond-crackstyle-SjcgE https://imgur.com/a/grand-prix-richmond-crackstyle-SjcgE

bflesch 2y ago
Your argument is very weak. The picture you've shared is at least two decades old at this point. And people showing their asscracks can also happen with suits, especially if someone is not used to wearing a suit often (e.g. it's not perfectly fit to their body shape). On top of that if organizers are hoarding hundreds of people in what looks like a multi-purpose location on the cheapest chairs/tables possible, then why should these people who need to sit and concentrate for many hours be forced to do it in expensive/rarely-used clothing.
- ycombinatrix 2y ago
  >people showing their asscracks can also happen with suits, especially if someone is not used to wearing a suit citation needed
latexr 2y ago
> You do need to have a minimum though. But my question was precisely why is the minimum so high? Sure, maybe don’t allow someone to play naked or with a t-shirt stamped with gore or racist imagery. But jeans? Come on. Looking at the rules, I wonder if they’d also, for example, prevent a man from playing in a skirt that would otherwise be acceptable for a woman. https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_...

sys_64738 2y ago

A denim vest? This sounds like an episode of Seinfeld.

michaelt 2y ago

> What’s the deal with the overly strict dress code in the first place? Some organisations have a great deal of cultural inertia If I start a club that requires all members to wear red trousers, then people who hate red trousers won't join, while people who love them will join in great numbers. Members who are ambivalent about red trousers won't feel comfortable enforcing the rules, so they won't take the junior positions of power that lead to senior positions of power. I'm pretty sure this is why London still have some private members' clubs that will insist on all men wearing a tie.