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Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one sca

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

lnsru 2y ago
I guess it’s the lack of everything in a partially state owned company. Here you go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Act They don’t really think about competition. That’s an arena for power fights, empire building and incompetence on every level. Think about software and Cariad disaster. Cars were a byproduct. Germans associated them for generations with good life and bought without thinking. I would say, until Golf 5 the cars were brilliant, advertising fun and I would buy one. But now… just another expensive car brand.
- fock 2y ago
  state-owned company where the 2 families owning the majority of shares block using the earnings to do any investment. The only thing were the state-stake comes into play is in not crushing unions in Germany (which they don't mind doing in the US) and not letting the whole enterprise fail (which it should ...)
- f1shy 2y ago
  I just keep hearing the same point of inflection, about golf 5. Then there was a big decline, not only VW, but all the others also. What happened?!
  - Lio 2y ago
    Not sure about “golf 5” but I have a Mk.7 Golf from 2014 and it’s an amazing car. There’s no telemetry left in it (3G was turned iff years ago). It has all the safety features. It regularly gets 60 something MPG (Imperial). The Adaptive Cruise Control is all the self driving I need. It’s great.
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    Legislation. They are required to gather that data. The keyword to start with C-ITS.
Earw0rm 2y ago
As you've brought China into this, which is the greater scandal? 1) VW Group collects data on its customers. 2) Chinese-made vehicles have potential two-way telemetry and control (we don't know, it's closed-source), and we've just allowed tens of thousands of 1.5-tonne, potentially autonomous vehicles with goodness-knows-what sensor packages, plenty of demonstrated ability to kill, injure, catch fire or block critical infrastructure, and backdoors to a not-exactly-friendly foreign government, unfettered access to our streets. I'm not saying Chinese EVs are a Trojan horse, but I can hardly think of a more effective way to do it, if they wanted to. Even assuming there's no "actor" component and they do nothing more than passive data-gathering, that's still.. huge.. right?
- epolanski 2y ago
  2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, people consistently go into these far fetching anti Chinese speculation when the proof is that the spying, meddling boogeyman is in Washington. This all feels like the usual US exceptionalism, where the only country that is exceptional and allowed to ignore rules is US, and others cannot.
  - Earw0rm 2y ago
    Because Tesla isn't owned and controlled by a foreign government and military rival. (OK, Elon is a little too cosy with Putin for my liking, but not to that extent). I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether a state that brings us disposable vapes, TikTok and throwaway fast fashion has our best interests at heart.
    - simoncion 2y ago
      Unless you're ultra-wealthy and particularly powerful, you should be skeptical that most any State has your best interests at heart... and even those rich and powerful folks tend to get swatted down if they become too much of a nuisance.
dirkt 2y ago
Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much easier, or to make it opt-in in the first place.
- f1shy 2y ago
  > they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access That is no little difference my friend!!!
- bluGill 2y ago
  More importantly also give people a way to check and use that date. Is my employee using the car personally (a violation of the laws allowing me to deduct the car)? did my employee really use the correct route? is my wife cheating on me? Did my kids really go to the library or were they racing across town? the above is all I can come up with. For many none of that applies and so the data can only be used against us.
- croes 2y ago
  > they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access Correction: They just don't have a known collection of blunders that allow access. I bet if you look closely you’ll find more.
- akimbostrawman 2y ago
  >No malicious intent this time it must be 1984 because otherwise collecting centimeter precise location data of vehicles would definitely be malicious....
- pas 2y ago
  > ... need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure blablal is actually tralala. no. they already have too many policies. and this and that. adding one more is how we got there. (of course they have policies for making sure PII is kept safe.) no. this is a cultural issue.
tessierashpool9 2y ago
as a person working in consulting for a few years now, i have to say - i am not surprised. at all. neither the negligence wrt to data protection laws as well as regarding it security. it's all just a big show with fancy charts showing how smart a solution will be. in the end nowadays it is often implemented by folks who barely speak an intelligible version of english (and certainly not german). i probably wouldn't be as frustrated about this if i was at least among the chosen ones benefiting financially of this bloated nonsense.

lnsru 2y ago

I guess it’s the lack of everything in a partially state owned company. Here you go: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Act They don’t really think about competition. That’s an arena for power fights, empire building and incompetence on every level. Think about software and Cariad disaster. Cars were a byproduct. Germans associated them for generations with good life and bought without thinking. I would say, until Golf 5 the cars were brilliant, advertising fun and I would buy one. But now… just another expensive car brand.

fock 2y ago
state-owned company where the 2 families owning the majority of shares block using the earnings to do any investment. The only thing were the state-stake comes into play is in not crushing unions in Germany (which they don't mind doing in the US) and not letting the whole enterprise fail (which it should ...)
f1shy 2y ago
I just keep hearing the same point of inflection, about golf 5. Then there was a big decline, not only VW, but all the others also. What happened?!
- Lio 2y ago
  Not sure about “golf 5” but I have a Mk.7 Golf from 2014 and it’s an amazing car. There’s no telemetry left in it (3G was turned iff years ago). It has all the safety features. It regularly gets 60 something MPG (Imperial). The Adaptive Cruise Control is all the self driving I need. It’s great.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  Legislation. They are required to gather that data. The keyword to start with C-ITS.

Earw0rm 2y ago

As you've brought China into this, which is the greater scandal? 1) VW Group collects data on its customers. 2) Chinese-made vehicles have potential two-way telemetry and control (we don't know, it's closed-source), and we've just allowed tens of thousands of 1.5-tonne, potentially autonomous vehicles with goodness-knows-what sensor packages, plenty of demonstrated ability to kill, injure, catch fire or block critical infrastructure, and backdoors to a not-exactly-friendly foreign government, unfettered access to our streets. I'm not saying Chinese EVs are a Trojan horse, but I can hardly think of a more effective way to do it, if they wanted to. Even assuming there's no "actor" component and they do nothing more than passive data-gathering, that's still.. huge.. right?

epolanski 2y ago
2) is ridiculous speculation and fearmongering. Why shouldn't I feel the same about Tesla's or any other car? I don't care how much media tries to brainwash us that China is my enemy, facts are that there are way more tangible proofs of all us being consistently spied by US-led agencies, we have proof that from dams to electrical grids the US has one button methods to create chaos in most of the world, and yet, people consistently go into these far fetching anti Chinese speculation when the proof is that the spying, meddling boogeyman is in Washington. This all feels like the usual US exceptionalism, where the only country that is exceptional and allowed to ignore rules is US, and others cannot.
- Earw0rm 2y ago
  Because Tesla isn't owned and controlled by a foreign government and military rival. (OK, Elon is a little too cosy with Putin for my liking, but not to that extent). I think it's reasonable to be sceptical about whether a state that brings us disposable vapes, TikTok and throwaway fast fashion has our best interests at heart.
  - simoncion 2y ago
    Unless you're ultra-wealthy and particularly powerful, you should be skeptical that most any State has your best interests at heart... and even those rich and powerful folks tend to get swatted down if they become too much of a nuisance.

dirkt 2y ago

Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much easier, or to make it opt-in in the first place.

f1shy 2y ago
> they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access That is no little difference my friend!!!
bluGill 2y ago
More importantly also give people a way to check and use that date. Is my employee using the car personally (a violation of the laws allowing me to deduct the car)? did my employee really use the correct route? is my wife cheating on me? Did my kids really go to the library or were they racing across town? the above is all I can come up with. For many none of that applies and so the data can only be used against us.
croes 2y ago
> they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access Correction: They just don't have a known collection of blunders that allow access. I bet if you look closely you’ll find more.
akimbostrawman 2y ago
>No malicious intent this time it must be 1984 because otherwise collecting centimeter precise location data of vehicles would definitely be malicious....
pas 2y ago
> ... need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure blablal is actually tralala. no. they already have too many policies. and this and that. adding one more is how we got there. (of course they have policies for making sure PII is kept safe.) no. this is a cultural issue.

tessierashpool9 2y ago

as a person working in consulting for a few years now, i have to say - i am not surprised. at all. neither the negligence wrt to data protection laws as well as regarding it security. it's all just a big show with fancy charts showing how smart a solution will be. in the end nowadays it is often implemented by folks who barely speak an intelligible version of english (and certainly not german). i probably wouldn't be as frustrated about this if i was at least among the chosen ones benefiting financially of this bloated nonsense.