4 ms·

This is why you don't bring your car for service at dealers. On "dumb" cars, that's when the transfer happens and it can be location data and even car audio. T

by pluc 2y ago

This is why you don't bring your car for service at dealers. On "dumb" cars, that's when the transfer happens and it can be location data and even car audio. That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen, because when it isn't stolen, they make money selling your location data, and that's the real product. Weaponizing convenience, as usual.

gambiting 2y ago
If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official dealer to maintain the warranty(at least in the EU/UK). The problem is that even if that's legally true, dealers will always try to weasel their way out of it. The service can be done at any VAT registered garage, but it has to be done using the exact compontents advised by the manufacturer and as advised by them - so if your garage gives you an invoice for "engine oil" you're screwed, it has to say "engine oil 5W20 SAE23531" or whatever is officially advised. Same for every other item or your service is invalid. And even if you do everything exactly as described, the dealer will just reject your warranty claim because you didn't service the car with them, then you have to take them to small claims court and you will almost certainly win, but it's time and effort. So as always, the law says one thing, and in practice things aren't that simple. >>That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen Certain cars are impossible to insure without a tracker. And if you're a new and young driver good luck finding any policy that will insure you without a tracker. It's not always about convenience.
- barbegal 2y ago
  If you take these corporations to court these arguments don't stand up. In your oil example, if you had a warranty claim due to say a broken suspension component then the type of engine oil used wouldn't be relevant. It just allows them to try to weasel their way out of claims.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    ...that is exactly what I said? Dealers will(and do!) just reject any warranty claim based on the fact that you haven't serviced the car with an official dealer. You can show them all the documents and laws and they will just ignore you. Taking them to court works but it just ends up costing you time and money.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Dealers do not reject claims. They make a large portion of their income from claims. The manufacture rejects claims. if you use the dealer for service they have records of that and so can sometimes prove that the relavent maitenance was done correctly but they want the money from warranty work either way and so they lose if the claim is rejected. they make money from regular service as well and want you for that. However warranty work is too valuable to them to ignore
      - gambiting 2y ago
        Yes, but like I said in my other comment - the manufacturer will reject any claim for a car that doesn't have a full service history within their own dealer network. The manufacturer will allow the dealer to submit other proof that the car has been serviced properly, but that takes time and effort, which the dealers don't want to spare, so they decline your warranty claim by not putting it in front of the manufacturer(because that would mean more work for them).
        bluGill 2y ago
        Manufactures are not that bad. They know the law and so they won't ask for maintenance records unless that could be relevant. Many claims are rejected though because the wrong chemical (oil, coolant...) will cause failures which they know the symptoms - that is why they require specific records - they know that issues of a specific nature are often caused by not following maintenance schedules. Of course it is in the manufactures interest to reject claims where they can. However it is also in their interest to pay out for claims since ease of handling issues is what builds loyalty.
- michaelt 2y ago
  If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not? Just have the official dealership ask the customer for $300 to replace the prefabulated amulite on the ambifacient lunar waneshaft, and when the customer declines, you can refuse their future warranty claims on that basis.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >>If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not? The way this works is that if you need warranty work done, the dealer submits a claim to the manufacturer saying "this car will need X hours of work and these parts to fix it" and if the manufacturer can see it's been serviced within their dealer network they just approve the claim. If they can't see the full service history on their own system they will ask the dealer to submit full documentation and proof that the car has been serviced properly before approving any work, and that requires effort from the dealer - so they'd rather say no. It's not that they want to scam you out of warranty - they just don't want to put the effort in.
- simoncion 2y ago
  > If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. In the US, Magnonson-Moss prevents denial of warranty service unless the denier can prove that the damage being repaired under warranty was caused by "third party" work done on the thing being brought in for service.
timewizard 2y ago
Knowing where my stolen car is located is a problem for the police and then my insurance company and then me. The tracker is not adding an incredible amount of value for most consumers outside of large fleet vehicle and heavy equipment operators. Briefly looking at the market it seems it's mostly focused on those two use cases plus parents attempting to monitor their children's driving locations and habits. So they're also weaponizing our children to an extent.
croes 2y ago
New cars are all equipped with SIM cards.
- pluc 2y ago
  Don't know if that's true for Canada. Finally an upside to prohibitive data rates!

by pluc 2y ago

gambiting 2y ago

If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. If you have a car already out of warranty then absolutely, service it anywhere else. But we have an EV and the 8 year warranty on the battery is also dependent on servicing the car within the dealer network, so we're in a bind for a while. And yes, I know that legally you don't have to service the car at the official dealer to maintain the warranty(at least in the EU/UK). The problem is that even if that's legally true, dealers will always try to weasel their way out of it. The service can be done at any VAT registered garage, but it has to be done using the exact compontents advised by the manufacturer and as advised by them - so if your garage gives you an invoice for "engine oil" you're screwed, it has to say "engine oil 5W20 SAE23531" or whatever is officially advised. Same for every other item or your service is invalid. And even if you do everything exactly as described, the dealer will just reject your warranty claim because you didn't service the car with them, then you have to take them to small claims court and you will almost certainly win, but it's time and effort. So as always, the law says one thing, and in practice things aren't that simple. >>That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen Certain cars are impossible to insure without a tracker. And if you're a new and young driver good luck finding any policy that will insure you without a tracker. It's not always about convenience.

barbegal 2y ago
If you take these corporations to court these arguments don't stand up. In your oil example, if you had a warranty claim due to say a broken suspension component then the type of engine oil used wouldn't be relevant. It just allows them to try to weasel their way out of claims.
- gambiting 2y ago
  ...that is exactly what I said? Dealers will(and do!) just reject any warranty claim based on the fact that you haven't serviced the car with an official dealer. You can show them all the documents and laws and they will just ignore you. Taking them to court works but it just ends up costing you time and money.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Dealers do not reject claims. They make a large portion of their income from claims. The manufacture rejects claims. if you use the dealer for service they have records of that and so can sometimes prove that the relavent maitenance was done correctly but they want the money from warranty work either way and so they lose if the claim is rejected. they make money from regular service as well and want you for that. However warranty work is too valuable to them to ignore
    - gambiting 2y ago
      Yes, but like I said in my other comment - the manufacturer will reject any claim for a car that doesn't have a full service history within their own dealer network. The manufacturer will allow the dealer to submit other proof that the car has been serviced properly, but that takes time and effort, which the dealers don't want to spare, so they decline your warranty claim by not putting it in front of the manufacturer(because that would mean more work for them).
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Manufactures are not that bad. They know the law and so they won't ask for maintenance records unless that could be relevant. Many claims are rejected though because the wrong chemical (oil, coolant...) will cause failures which they know the symptoms - that is why they require specific records - they know that issues of a specific nature are often caused by not following maintenance schedules. Of course it is in the manufactures interest to reject claims where they can. However it is also in their interest to pay out for claims since ease of handling issues is what builds loyalty.
michaelt 2y ago
If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not? Just have the official dealership ask the customer for $300 to replace the prefabulated amulite on the ambifacient lunar waneshaft, and when the customer declines, you can refuse their future warranty claims on that basis.
- gambiting 2y ago
  >>If the company is in the business of scamming people on the warranty, can't they do it just as easily whether you service with them or not? The way this works is that if you need warranty work done, the dealer submits a claim to the manufacturer saying "this car will need X hours of work and these parts to fix it" and if the manufacturer can see it's been serviced within their dealer network they just approve the claim. If they can't see the full service history on their own system they will ask the dealer to submit full documentation and proof that the car has been serviced properly before approving any work, and that requires effort from the dealer - so they'd rather say no. It's not that they want to scam you out of warranty - they just don't want to put the effort in.
simoncion 2y ago
> If you bought a brand new car, the loss of warranty is not worth not bringing it to the dealer. In the US, Magnonson-Moss prevents denial of warranty service unless the denier can prove that the damage being repaired under warranty was caused by "third party" work done on the thing being brought in for service.

timewizard 2y ago

Knowing where my stolen car is located is a problem for the police and then my insurance company and then me. The tracker is not adding an incredible amount of value for most consumers outside of large fleet vehicle and heavy equipment operators. Briefly looking at the market it seems it's mostly focused on those two use cases plus parents attempting to monitor their children's driving locations and habits. So they're also weaponizing our children to an extent.

croes 2y ago

New cars are all equipped with SIM cards.

pluc 2y ago
Don't know if that's true for Canada. Finally an upside to prohibitive data rates!