5 ms·

Does this mean those places also ban people from using smartphones or normal cameras on the premises? There is no indications that Mann was actively taking pict

by sxp 14y ago

Does this mean those places also ban people from using smartphones or normal cameras on the premises? There is no indications that Mann was actively taking pictures of strangers. And it would makes sense for a tourist to take pictures of his family at a restaurant. How are tourists normally treated when they try to take pictures of their vacation?

bambax 14y ago
As I said above, you can take pictures of monuments, outdoors, and of people you know, indoors, where it makes sense (a restaurant, people at your table). But if you try to take pictures of strangers -- anywhere -- you will generate a very aggressive reaction. These rules are not written down so they're hard for strangers to understand; it's very possible for a tourist to feel photography is totally "free" in France when visiting tourist locations, and then find herself in the middle of a fight because she took her camera out of her bag at the wrong time in the wrong place (never in the subway for example!) The funny thing with these kinds of "rules" / customs is that you internalize them; I can't even imagine myself taking pictures in the subway...
- swampthing 14y ago
  Out of curiosity, do your fellow countrymen not know that foreigners may not be aware of this cultural norm, or is it that they're indifferent?
  - stevoski 14y ago
    I think this sentence is key: > The funny thing with these kinds of "rules" / customs is that you internalize them; I can't even imagine myself taking pictures in the subway... I've lived in several countries, and have inadvertently offended people in all of them. Well-travelled, educated people, who don't realise that some specific cultural norms are just that - cultural.
  - batista 14y ago
    Why, are Americans, especially inside the two coasts, sensitive that foreigners may be not aware of their cultural norms?
- rmc 14y ago
  The funny thing with these kinds of "rules" / customs is that you internalize them; I can't even imagine myself taking pictures in the subway... I suppose a UK/US person would never consider it apporpriate to take photos in a bathroom for example.
  - randallsquared 14y ago
    I'm a US person, and on a recent trip in the US South took photos inside a (public) bathroom on more than one occasion, when I saw something entertaining. Not photos of people, of course, but there were other people in the bathroom on both occasions, and no one seemed shocked or worried. I'm confused about how this aversion to cameras can possibly hold when nearly everyone is carrying one or more cameras at all times. Does everyone in Europe avoid using their smartphone except in the privacy of their own home? As cameras shrink and are built into pretty much everything, is this culture changing, or are products simply going to be built without cameras for the European market?
    - rmc 14y ago
      Not photos of people, of course Exactly, "not of people (in the bathroom)". Would you take photos of people in a bathroom. If you're male, would you take photos of men at the urinal? Does everyone in Europe avoid using their smartphone except in the privacy of their own home? No of course not.
      - randallsquared 14y ago
        If you're male, would you take photos of men at the urinal? I am male, and no, that would seem weird to me. On the other hand, I wouldn't feel that I could legitimately assault someone who was. No of course [people don't avoid using smartphones in public] You say "of course", but I can't figure out how universal cameras are consistent with a culture that fears cameras in public. If a dozen people on a subway car are using smartphones (and therefore could be taking video or photos right now), how do others react? Does the answer change when a dozen people are wearing Google Glass? Also, why do people seem dismissive of questions like these? :)
- jakejake 14y ago
  I was in France recently (Paris) and I took pictures all over the place with a very visible film camera - including on the train. Of course I didn't go shooting strangers directly in their face. I think I'd you do that most anywhere people will get upset because what business do you have taking a close-up picture of a stranger without their permission? That's an intrusion just about anywhere. At least in Paris, I found the city to be crowded with tourist snapping photos of everything. I didn't see anybody giving the slightest care. I had always imagined France to be a photo-friendly place considering the reverence for film and art and being the birthplace of photography. Perhaps I didn't see enough but, at least, it's hard for me to imagine people getting violent over photographs just based on my personal experience. Because with the amount of tourist taking pictures there would be blood running on the streets.
dante_dev 14y ago
yes, basically if you use your smartphone to take a photo of a dish, they'll complain about it.
- Knotwilg 14y ago
  That's an exaggeration. I'm Belgian and recently went to France and took pictures of us enjoying our dishes. I didn't notice the personnel having an issue with that. So it is not a general rule. But the spirit of bambax' and others' messages is true: in Europe, customer is not king and should behave in a way that pleases the shopkeepers or restaurant owners. This is more true the closer you are to the capital or the city's hot spot. And more generally, one has to develop a sense of what is right in a particular place, not assuming that the same customs apply as in your home country. Americans don't have a good record at that, I'm afraid. As someone pointed out, you're bound to inadvertently offend people, but rushing into a place with a camera is a good way to start learning from your mistakes. That being said, the violence displayed by this particular personnel is completely over the top and should not be tolerated, not by customers and not by law.
  - tluyben2 14y ago
    Depends, as always, on where you go; we avoid Paris like the plague (for assorted reasons, rudeness of owners is one of them), but in villages and small cities (south of france, belgium, netherlands, germany) I feel very much like a king. Especially if you speak the language.
Fuzzwah 14y ago
> There is no indications that Mann was actively taking pictures of strangers. Except for all the photos in the blog post.
- jonmrodriguez 14y ago
  If you actually read the post, you would see that the device would normally purge its buffer after it finished augmenting / vision processing those frames. Only because it was forcefully shut off was the data retained.
  - theorique 14y ago
    An angry rent-a-cop in the face of the person wielding the camera would not know this.
  - Fuzzwah 14y ago
    If you're willing to believe that via a malfunction he was able to get photos off, you've missed my point. Its possible because they're there. Anything beyond that is arguing against the reality of the photos on the web page.

by sxp 14y ago

bambax 14y ago

As I said above, you can take pictures of monuments, outdoors, and of people you know, indoors, where it makes sense (a restaurant, people at your table). But if you try to take pictures of strangers -- anywhere -- you will generate a very aggressive reaction. These rules are not written down so they're hard for strangers to understand; it's very possible for a tourist to feel photography is totally "free" in France when visiting tourist locations, and then find herself in the middle of a fight because she took her camera out of her bag at the wrong time in the wrong place (never in the subway for example!) The funny thing with these kinds of "rules" / customs is that you internalize them; I can't even imagine myself taking pictures in the subway...

swampthing 14y ago
Out of curiosity, do your fellow countrymen not know that foreigners may not be aware of this cultural norm, or is it that they're indifferent?
- stevoski 14y ago
  I think this sentence is key: > The funny thing with these kinds of "rules" / customs is that you internalize them; I can't even imagine myself taking pictures in the subway... I've lived in several countries, and have inadvertently offended people in all of them. Well-travelled, educated people, who don't realise that some specific cultural norms are just that - cultural.
- batista 14y ago
  Why, are Americans, especially inside the two coasts, sensitive that foreigners may be not aware of their cultural norms?
rmc 14y ago
The funny thing with these kinds of "rules" / customs is that you internalize them; I can't even imagine myself taking pictures in the subway... I suppose a UK/US person would never consider it apporpriate to take photos in a bathroom for example.
- randallsquared 14y ago
  I'm a US person, and on a recent trip in the US South took photos inside a (public) bathroom on more than one occasion, when I saw something entertaining. Not photos of people, of course, but there were other people in the bathroom on both occasions, and no one seemed shocked or worried. I'm confused about how this aversion to cameras can possibly hold when nearly everyone is carrying one or more cameras at all times. Does everyone in Europe avoid using their smartphone except in the privacy of their own home? As cameras shrink and are built into pretty much everything, is this culture changing, or are products simply going to be built without cameras for the European market?
  - rmc 14y ago
    Not photos of people, of course Exactly, "not of people (in the bathroom)". Would you take photos of people in a bathroom. If you're male, would you take photos of men at the urinal? Does everyone in Europe avoid using their smartphone except in the privacy of their own home? No of course not.
    - randallsquared 14y ago
      If you're male, would you take photos of men at the urinal? I am male, and no, that would seem weird to me. On the other hand, I wouldn't feel that I could legitimately assault someone who was. No of course [people don't avoid using smartphones in public] You say "of course", but I can't figure out how universal cameras are consistent with a culture that fears cameras in public. If a dozen people on a subway car are using smartphones (and therefore could be taking video or photos right now), how do others react? Does the answer change when a dozen people are wearing Google Glass? Also, why do people seem dismissive of questions like these? :)
jakejake 14y ago
I was in France recently (Paris) and I took pictures all over the place with a very visible film camera - including on the train. Of course I didn't go shooting strangers directly in their face. I think I'd you do that most anywhere people will get upset because what business do you have taking a close-up picture of a stranger without their permission? That's an intrusion just about anywhere. At least in Paris, I found the city to be crowded with tourist snapping photos of everything. I didn't see anybody giving the slightest care. I had always imagined France to be a photo-friendly place considering the reverence for film and art and being the birthplace of photography. Perhaps I didn't see enough but, at least, it's hard for me to imagine people getting violent over photographs just based on my personal experience. Because with the amount of tourist taking pictures there would be blood running on the streets.

dante_dev 14y ago

yes, basically if you use your smartphone to take a photo of a dish, they'll complain about it.

Knotwilg 14y ago
That's an exaggeration. I'm Belgian and recently went to France and took pictures of us enjoying our dishes. I didn't notice the personnel having an issue with that. So it is not a general rule. But the spirit of bambax' and others' messages is true: in Europe, customer is not king and should behave in a way that pleases the shopkeepers or restaurant owners. This is more true the closer you are to the capital or the city's hot spot. And more generally, one has to develop a sense of what is right in a particular place, not assuming that the same customs apply as in your home country. Americans don't have a good record at that, I'm afraid. As someone pointed out, you're bound to inadvertently offend people, but rushing into a place with a camera is a good way to start learning from your mistakes. That being said, the violence displayed by this particular personnel is completely over the top and should not be tolerated, not by customers and not by law.
- tluyben2 14y ago
  Depends, as always, on where you go; we avoid Paris like the plague (for assorted reasons, rudeness of owners is one of them), but in villages and small cities (south of france, belgium, netherlands, germany) I feel very much like a king. Especially if you speak the language.

Fuzzwah 14y ago

> There is no indications that Mann was actively taking pictures of strangers. Except for all the photos in the blog post.

jonmrodriguez 14y ago
If you actually read the post, you would see that the device would normally purge its buffer after it finished augmenting / vision processing those frames. Only because it was forcefully shut off was the data retained.
- theorique 14y ago
  An angry rent-a-cop in the face of the person wielding the camera would not know this.
- Fuzzwah 14y ago
  If you're willing to believe that via a malfunction he was able to get photos off, you've missed my point. Its possible because they're there. Anything beyond that is arguing against the reality of the photos on the web page.