5 ms·

'No Problem' Word Processor Poses a Problem for Former President Carter (1981)

49 points by helloworld 2y ago

chilmers 2y ago
I guess he’s doing all his writing in the cloud now.
- thefounder 2y ago
  You mean underground
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ryao 2y ago
> The Lanier machine, which sells for about $12,000, takes up about the same amount of desk space as an electric typewriter but is taller by a foot or more because of the cathode-ray display screen. It is amazing how much the price of word processors has declined over the years. It has dropped from $12,000 to free, provided you have a PC on which to run it: https://www.openoffice.org/product/writer.html https://www.openoffice.org/product/writer.html I wonder if President Carter had to pay for his or if it was free for him given that having him use it was likely was a great advertising opportunity at the time.
- bitwize 2y ago
  He leased two, one for himself and one for Rosalynn.
- stonogo 2y ago
  Just noting for the record that Openoffice has tons of security problems and no development happening. Apache won't retire the project because they have some kind of MBA-brained theory that the 'brand' is worth misleading people. Libreoffice is the active project: https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/writer/ https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/writer/
  - ryao 2y ago
    This does not look inactive to me: https://github.com/apache/openoffice/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/apache/openoffice/graphs/commit-activity It does not have as much activity as Libre Office, but saying it is inactive seems extreme to me: https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/graphs/commit-activity
    - gittergold 2y ago
      I've found looking at commit counts is never very good for judging project activity, at least if they don't squash-merge all pulls. For example there can be pages of one liners https://github.com/apache/openoffice/commits/trunk/?after=c80bf67b751a9ae24aec362f0c0a44d47243fee0+139 https://github.com/apache/openoffice/commits/trunk/?after=c8... One pull as opposed to zero indeed may break the inactive barrier but probably good not to read too much into commit counts graphs.
      - aorloff 2y ago
        For the sake of ourselves, looking back at our own repo, squash merge !
      - ryao 2y ago
        That does not change that they have weekly activity. That is more than most repositories on GitHub.
    - Brian_K_White 2y ago
      The previous comment correctly summarized the actual state of things on all counts. Look closer.
      - ryao 2y ago
        That is a popular remark by libre office fans, but it is not true when I look at commit counts. As for security issues, it is interesting how nobody repeating this ever can cite any known security flaws. A quick comparison between the open office security bulletin and recently published CVEs (2023 or more recent) suggests that they are all fixed. https://www.openoffice.org/security/bulletin.html https://www.openoffice.org/security/bulletin.html https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=openoffice https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=openoffice Note that two of the ones in the mitre results are in a PHP project that is not part of the Open Office code base. Unless you can prove otherwise, it looks to me like people saying this are spreading FUD. The GitHub commit analysis shows an active project, although not as active as libre office, so the remarks about Open Office being a dead project are exaggerations at best and outright lies at worst. Finally, I would like to remark that it is ridiculous to complain because I cited an open source project you do not use/like. This is vim vs emacs levels of nonsense.
neilv 2y ago
There's this 1979 model: https://toweringskills.com/writing/ascendency-of-word-processing-and-microsoft-word/ https://toweringskills.com/writing/ascendency-of-word-proces... And this model 103: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/lanier-model-103-no-problem-word-processor.46863/ https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/lanier-model-103-n...
nlh 2y ago
I think everyone who spent time computing in the 80s & 90s has at least one tale of woe relating to forgetting to save or crashing before a save or tripping over a power plug, etc. In retrospect it seems pretty wild that users were expected to actuate an explicit “save” command and that word processors didn’t just handle this automatically. I’m sure there were real reasons - I was never involved in DOS or Windows programming but I presume it had to do with the slowness of saving to disk (and that a background auto-save wasn’t technically possible?). Or did we just not yet collectively have enough experience to know that auto saving was something critical to writers…?
- bitwize 2y ago
  Given that Mr. Carter received a special disk with which he retrieved the lost material, it seems more like he accidentally deleted it, rather than just failing to save it.
- IX-103 2y ago
  Imagine the entire machine coming to a halt, ignoring input, and making grinding noises for 5-10 seconds. That's what saving a small file was like in the floppy disk era. If that was happening randomly while you're trying to type something, you'd go crazy.
  - nlh 2y ago
    Makes sense and I do remember that!
- b112 2y ago
  Saving did take time, but multitasking was a rarity, as was multithreading. Machines only had so much spare cpu and ram, too. I'd expect autosave to prevent typing, which would bogart the workflow. I can envision doing quick incremental saves, maybe, but then you'd probably get jittery behaviour. If we're talking mid 80s, something like the c64 would need assembly to handle anything like that I'd think. I remember writing a BBS in basic, and just typing for an afternoon and running out of ram. I had to create separate modules for the up/download area, the message board, file transfer, and so on, all loaded off of... there was a commodore 1M floppy drive I used.
sedatk 2y ago
I've recently read on Bluesky that someone's mother used to use No Problem on a Lanier and loved it more than WordStar. I think that's quite a praise. EDIT: Found it: https://bsky.app/profile/audiooblivion.bsky.social/post/3leg3ngsp7k22 https://bsky.app/profile/audiooblivion.bsky.social/post/3leg...
mbostleman 2y ago
“The operator works at an electronic keyboard that returns the carriage automatically…” Interesting how the mechanical concept of a carriage carried on.

49 points by helloworld 2y ago

chilmers 2y ago

I guess he’s doing all his writing in the cloud now.

thefounder 2y ago
You mean underground

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ryao 2y ago

> The Lanier machine, which sells for about $12,000, takes up about the same amount of desk space as an electric typewriter but is taller by a foot or more because of the cathode-ray display screen. It is amazing how much the price of word processors has declined over the years. It has dropped from $12,000 to free, provided you have a PC on which to run it: https://www.openoffice.org/product/writer.html https://www.openoffice.org/product/writer.html I wonder if President Carter had to pay for his or if it was free for him given that having him use it was likely was a great advertising opportunity at the time.

bitwize 2y ago
He leased two, one for himself and one for Rosalynn.
stonogo 2y ago
Just noting for the record that Openoffice has tons of security problems and no development happening. Apache won't retire the project because they have some kind of MBA-brained theory that the 'brand' is worth misleading people. Libreoffice is the active project: https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/writer/ https://www.libreoffice.org/discover/writer/
- ryao 2y ago
  This does not look inactive to me: https://github.com/apache/openoffice/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/apache/openoffice/graphs/commit-activity It does not have as much activity as Libre Office, but saying it is inactive seems extreme to me: https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/graphs/commit-activity https://github.com/LibreOffice/core/graphs/commit-activity
  - gittergold 2y ago
    I've found looking at commit counts is never very good for judging project activity, at least if they don't squash-merge all pulls. For example there can be pages of one liners https://github.com/apache/openoffice/commits/trunk/?after=c80bf67b751a9ae24aec362f0c0a44d47243fee0+139 https://github.com/apache/openoffice/commits/trunk/?after=c8... One pull as opposed to zero indeed may break the inactive barrier but probably good not to read too much into commit counts graphs.
    - aorloff 2y ago
      For the sake of ourselves, looking back at our own repo, squash merge !
    - ryao 2y ago
      That does not change that they have weekly activity. That is more than most repositories on GitHub.
  - Brian_K_White 2y ago
    The previous comment correctly summarized the actual state of things on all counts. Look closer.
    - ryao 2y ago
      That is a popular remark by libre office fans, but it is not true when I look at commit counts. As for security issues, it is interesting how nobody repeating this ever can cite any known security flaws. A quick comparison between the open office security bulletin and recently published CVEs (2023 or more recent) suggests that they are all fixed. https://www.openoffice.org/security/bulletin.html https://www.openoffice.org/security/bulletin.html https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=openoffice https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=openoffice Note that two of the ones in the mitre results are in a PHP project that is not part of the Open Office code base. Unless you can prove otherwise, it looks to me like people saying this are spreading FUD. The GitHub commit analysis shows an active project, although not as active as libre office, so the remarks about Open Office being a dead project are exaggerations at best and outright lies at worst. Finally, I would like to remark that it is ridiculous to complain because I cited an open source project you do not use/like. This is vim vs emacs levels of nonsense.

neilv 2y ago

There's this 1979 model: https://toweringskills.com/writing/ascendency-of-word-processing-and-microsoft-word/ https://toweringskills.com/writing/ascendency-of-word-proces... And this model 103: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/lanier-model-103-no-problem-word-processor.46863/ https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/lanier-model-103-n...

nlh 2y ago

I think everyone who spent time computing in the 80s & 90s has at least one tale of woe relating to forgetting to save or crashing before a save or tripping over a power plug, etc. In retrospect it seems pretty wild that users were expected to actuate an explicit “save” command and that word processors didn’t just handle this automatically. I’m sure there were real reasons - I was never involved in DOS or Windows programming but I presume it had to do with the slowness of saving to disk (and that a background auto-save wasn’t technically possible?). Or did we just not yet collectively have enough experience to know that auto saving was something critical to writers…?

bitwize 2y ago
Given that Mr. Carter received a special disk with which he retrieved the lost material, it seems more like he accidentally deleted it, rather than just failing to save it.
IX-103 2y ago
Imagine the entire machine coming to a halt, ignoring input, and making grinding noises for 5-10 seconds. That's what saving a small file was like in the floppy disk era. If that was happening randomly while you're trying to type something, you'd go crazy.
- nlh 2y ago
  Makes sense and I do remember that!
b112 2y ago
Saving did take time, but multitasking was a rarity, as was multithreading. Machines only had so much spare cpu and ram, too. I'd expect autosave to prevent typing, which would bogart the workflow. I can envision doing quick incremental saves, maybe, but then you'd probably get jittery behaviour. If we're talking mid 80s, something like the c64 would need assembly to handle anything like that I'd think. I remember writing a BBS in basic, and just typing for an afternoon and running out of ram. I had to create separate modules for the up/download area, the message board, file transfer, and so on, all loaded off of... there was a commodore 1M floppy drive I used.

sedatk 2y ago

I've recently read on Bluesky that someone's mother used to use No Problem on a Lanier and loved it more than WordStar. I think that's quite a praise. EDIT: Found it: https://bsky.app/profile/audiooblivion.bsky.social/post/3leg3ngsp7k22 https://bsky.app/profile/audiooblivion.bsky.social/post/3leg...

mbostleman 2y ago

“The operator works at an electronic keyboard that returns the carriage automatically…” Interesting how the mechanical concept of a carriage carried on.