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I wasn’t alive for Carter’s presidency, so can someone explain how his handling of the hostages in Iran was positive at all for the United States? To me as an

I wasn’t alive for Carter’s presidency, so can someone explain how his handling of the hostages in Iran was positive at all for the United States? To me as an American even this many years later and as a young person who didn’t see it, ending your presidency while another nation holds your citizens seems extremely embarrassing. And all I see is extreme praise of the man. I’d honestly like to see some discussion here.

userbinator 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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syndicatedjelly 2y ago
Why does being alive in the 1970s qualify someone to speak intelligently on that subject?
- macrocosmos 2y ago
  If I live in a desert and 1000 children who have never seen the ocean tell me it’s ugly, should I believe them over the one older man who has actually seen it and says it’s beautiful? First hand accounts are inherently more valuable than secondary ones. Failure to see that is frightening. Just because something gets echoed over and over doesn’t make it true. And that’s exactly what I see. I see my generation saying how great Carter was while many of those in older generations than me seem to think otherwise. I’d like to say it’s strange, but actually it’s scary.
  - metabagel 2y ago
    There was definitely a perception at the time that Carter wasn’t doing enough, but we can ask ourselves whether that perception was justified.
    - macrocosmos 2y ago
      Creating that perception is part of the president’s job though. One of the president’s roles is as a figurehead and they set the tone for the country. Setting an overwhelmingly bad tone across an entire nation that was so bad I even know about despite being born after the man even was president is awful. So yes I’d say depressing and embarrassing hundreds of millions of people probably had a negative effect on the nation. I can see it on the older generation’s faces when they talk about Carter. It’s a sad face on otherwise cheerful people. I’m not going to gaslight them into believing he was actually great and they just didn’t know it.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        Yes. And Carter was an honest president. Which ended in his downfall. He was a bad president in the sense that he couldn't do proper PR with smokes and mirrors like every president afterwards.
  - syndicatedjelly 2y ago
    It's kinda like saying that anyone who witnessed the Twin Towers collapse must have a more valuable and refined opinion on the War in Iraq
- raegis 2y ago
  It can be one of many factors. Most of the criticism of Carter I hear from younger people is the same old "worst president ever, except for the Camp David Accords" trope I've been hearing for 40 years. None can ever explain why. On the other hand, Carter haters my age and older give detailed explanations of their distaste for him. (I'm not saying their explanations are sound, but they do give them.)
deleted 2y ago
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metabagel 2y ago
It wasn’t positive. It was a terrible situation. Hard to think of what Carter could have done differently. Ultimately, the hostages were freed through negotiations.
DrJohanson 2y ago
[dead]
hindsightbias 2y ago
A real man would have gone to war and sacrificed the hostages. I’m sure the $200/barrel and gas shortages would have been patriotically acceped as every port and tanker in the Gulf burned.
chasil 2y ago
You have to understand that the situation originated in 1953, when the elected prime minister of Iran was removed from office by the CIA after an attempt to nationalize assets owned by British Petroleum. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9ta... This resulted in the Shah of Iran becoming more powerful, but was overthrown in 1978, when the hostages were taken. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_revolution
kev009 2y ago
The American security state has been broken for a long time, principally because it seems to perpetually turn in on itself and the citizenry, so without devolving deep into politics I would posit he was just the wrong guy at the wrong time with respect to this issue. Of primary issue, who could do anything about it? You'd think the superpower would have an answer but there was none. Eventually this leads to the formation of CT teams (Delta/ST6) and this boondoggle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw. Had the apparatus been ready for him, the security state might have been able to make a Zero Dark Thirty movie with his image playing a prominent role.

userbinator 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

syndicatedjelly 2y ago

Why does being alive in the 1970s qualify someone to speak intelligently on that subject?

macrocosmos 2y ago
If I live in a desert and 1000 children who have never seen the ocean tell me it’s ugly, should I believe them over the one older man who has actually seen it and says it’s beautiful? First hand accounts are inherently more valuable than secondary ones. Failure to see that is frightening. Just because something gets echoed over and over doesn’t make it true. And that’s exactly what I see. I see my generation saying how great Carter was while many of those in older generations than me seem to think otherwise. I’d like to say it’s strange, but actually it’s scary.
- metabagel 2y ago
  There was definitely a perception at the time that Carter wasn’t doing enough, but we can ask ourselves whether that perception was justified.
  - macrocosmos 2y ago
    Creating that perception is part of the president’s job though. One of the president’s roles is as a figurehead and they set the tone for the country. Setting an overwhelmingly bad tone across an entire nation that was so bad I even know about despite being born after the man even was president is awful. So yes I’d say depressing and embarrassing hundreds of millions of people probably had a negative effect on the nation. I can see it on the older generation’s faces when they talk about Carter. It’s a sad face on otherwise cheerful people. I’m not going to gaslight them into believing he was actually great and they just didn’t know it.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Yes. And Carter was an honest president. Which ended in his downfall. He was a bad president in the sense that he couldn't do proper PR with smokes and mirrors like every president afterwards.
- syndicatedjelly 2y ago
  It's kinda like saying that anyone who witnessed the Twin Towers collapse must have a more valuable and refined opinion on the War in Iraq
raegis 2y ago
It can be one of many factors. Most of the criticism of Carter I hear from younger people is the same old "worst president ever, except for the Camp David Accords" trope I've been hearing for 40 years. None can ever explain why. On the other hand, Carter haters my age and older give detailed explanations of their distaste for him. (I'm not saying their explanations are sound, but they do give them.)

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

metabagel 2y ago

It wasn’t positive. It was a terrible situation. Hard to think of what Carter could have done differently. Ultimately, the hostages were freed through negotiations.

DrJohanson 2y ago

[dead]

hindsightbias 2y ago

A real man would have gone to war and sacrificed the hostages. I’m sure the $200/barrel and gas shortages would have been patriotically acceped as every port and tanker in the Gulf burned.

chasil 2y ago

You have to understand that the situation originated in 1953, when the elected prime minister of Iran was removed from office by the CIA after an attempt to nationalize assets owned by British Petroleum. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9ta... This resulted in the Shah of Iran becoming more powerful, but was overthrown in 1978, when the hostages were taken. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_revolution

kev009 2y ago

The American security state has been broken for a long time, principally because it seems to perpetually turn in on itself and the citizenry, so without devolving deep into politics I would posit he was just the wrong guy at the wrong time with respect to this issue. Of primary issue, who could do anything about it? You'd think the superpower would have an answer but there was none. Eventually this leads to the formation of CT teams (Delta/ST6) and this boondoggle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw. Had the apparatus been ready for him, the security state might have been able to make a Zero Dark Thirty movie with his image playing a prominent role.