5 ms·

> This doesn't actually bear out. Minimum wage increases really don't have a history of making minimum wage employees unemployable, or destroying the companies

by nox101 2y ago

> This doesn't actually bear out. Minimum wage increases really don't have a history of making minimum wage employees unemployable, or destroying the companies affected. In fact, the opposite tends to happen, as these businesses tend to be frequented by other minimum wage employees as customers, so it ends up being a rising tide that lifts all boats. It's not nearly that settled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvr0NhYfkO4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvr0NhYfkO4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H4yp8Fbi-Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H4yp8Fbi-Y

grayhatter 2y ago
I'll give you the economist as an acceptable source... but reasontv has a habit of omitting easy to access data that's detrimental to the argument they started with. While that lack of candor might not be disqualifying, it's dishonest when you also present yourself as a journalist.
pydry 2y ago
It's not "settled" not because it isnt true - Dube, Lester, Reich proved that conclusively that it is. It's "debated" because raising the minimum wage hikes usually come out of profit margins: https://cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf https://cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf If there's one thing the business community and the econ think tanks it funds can all agree upon it's that any policy that involves sacrificing profits is Bad. Global warming denial and this both come from the same source.
- nox101 2y ago
  it's debated because it's impossile to settle. Otherwise set the minimum wage to $5000 per hr. See how it works out
  - rfrey 2y ago
    That's not a convincing rebuttle. Saying that "drinking water is healthy" is controversial because "drink 1000 litres in a day and see how that goes" does not help the conversation.
    - kortilla 2y ago
      That’s a perfectly fine response when the entire counter argument is “raising minimum wage is fine because everyone magically does better business to support it”. That’s ridiculous on its face because there isn’t any higher level of productivity so someone in the economy is eating that loss.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        I don't think it is that clear-cut, though. People who are well-fed, well-rested, free from stress and have good healthcare do tend to be more productive.
        nox101 2y ago
        You're ignoring all the people that lost their jobs and had their hours shortened. If 1000 people earn minimum wage, raising it, some of them make more money, some lose money because their hours are shortened, some lose money because the jobs disappear. Whether that's a net positive overall is what's debated.
        pydry 2y ago
        >You're ignoring all the people that lost their jobs Because Dube, Lester, Reich says that they don't exist. Businesses pay for almost all hikes by dipping into their profit margins. A small % raise prices. A negligible number let people go.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        Is there no truth to the California fast food restaurant closure wave I heard about when they raised fast food minimum wage to $20/hour?
        vlovich123 2y ago
        It’s not really clear. First, a lot of the criticism that restaurants are closing are from restaurants that would have closed anyway [1]. > The biggest expense Rubio’s has been facing is debt — a burden that has grown since the chain was acquired in 2010 by the private equity firm Mill Road Capital There’s an argument to be made that maybe the number of jobs in the fast food sector has decreased. But that’s also a myopic view since we need to know the labor situation statewide. Someone not in a fast food job might have found employment elsewhere which isn’t a bad thing, especially since the workers who do have those jobs are being paid a livable wage. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-06-12/the-fast-food-industry-claims-the-california-minimum-wage-law-is-costing-jobs-its-numbers-are-fake https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-06-12/the-fast-f...

by nox101 2y ago

grayhatter 2y ago

I'll give you the economist as an acceptable source... but reasontv has a habit of omitting easy to access data that's detrimental to the argument they started with. While that lack of candor might not be disqualifying, it's dishonest when you also present yourself as a journalist.

pydry 2y ago

It's not "settled" not because it isnt true - Dube, Lester, Reich proved that conclusively that it is. It's "debated" because raising the minimum wage hikes usually come out of profit margins: https://cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf https://cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf If there's one thing the business community and the econ think tanks it funds can all agree upon it's that any policy that involves sacrificing profits is Bad. Global warming denial and this both come from the same source.

nox101 2y ago
it's debated because it's impossile to settle. Otherwise set the minimum wage to $5000 per hr. See how it works out
- rfrey 2y ago
  That's not a convincing rebuttle. Saying that "drinking water is healthy" is controversial because "drink 1000 litres in a day and see how that goes" does not help the conversation.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    That’s a perfectly fine response when the entire counter argument is “raising minimum wage is fine because everyone magically does better business to support it”. That’s ridiculous on its face because there isn’t any higher level of productivity so someone in the economy is eating that loss.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      I don't think it is that clear-cut, though. People who are well-fed, well-rested, free from stress and have good healthcare do tend to be more productive.
      - nox101 2y ago
        You're ignoring all the people that lost their jobs and had their hours shortened. If 1000 people earn minimum wage, raising it, some of them make more money, some lose money because their hours are shortened, some lose money because the jobs disappear. Whether that's a net positive overall is what's debated.
        pydry 2y ago
        >You're ignoring all the people that lost their jobs Because Dube, Lester, Reich says that they don't exist. Businesses pay for almost all hikes by dipping into their profit margins. A small % raise prices. A negligible number let people go.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        Is there no truth to the California fast food restaurant closure wave I heard about when they raised fast food minimum wage to $20/hour?
        vlovich123 2y ago
        It’s not really clear. First, a lot of the criticism that restaurants are closing are from restaurants that would have closed anyway [1]. > The biggest expense Rubio’s has been facing is debt — a burden that has grown since the chain was acquired in 2010 by the private equity firm Mill Road Capital There’s an argument to be made that maybe the number of jobs in the fast food sector has decreased. But that’s also a myopic view since we need to know the labor situation statewide. Someone not in a fast food job might have found employment elsewhere which isn’t a bad thing, especially since the workers who do have those jobs are being paid a livable wage. https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-06-12/the-fast-food-industry-claims-the-california-minimum-wage-law-is-costing-jobs-its-numbers-are-fake https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-06-12/the-fast-f...