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Although on the subject of hyperscaler hardware and restricted closed ecosystems, AMD EPYC processors have that nice feature which allows OEMs to permanently ve

Although on the subject of hyperscaler hardware and restricted closed ecosystems, AMD EPYC processors have that nice feature which allows OEMs to permanently vendor-lock the processor to their hardware on first boot, so you can't take a chip from a Dell server and stick it in a non-Dell server for example. If you're buying a random surplus EPYC processor you might not even be able to know which vendor it's bound to until you try it.

walterbell 2y ago
At some point, EU "circular economy" rules will need to look at secure mechanisms for transfer of decommissioned hardware ownership for sale on secondary markets. This also applies to hyperscaler server recycling, and even old Apple hardware that could be made to work with alternate operating systems. If AMD EPYC CPU policy is enforced by PSP firmware, then it can be negotiated by customers in a large enough, non-OEM, buying pool.
- wmf 2y ago
  The immediate solution is to not remove the CPU from the motherboard. Sell them as a unit.
  - prettyStandard 2y ago
    I agree and I know you're being helpful, but as soon as that's normalized they're going to start locking the ram.
  - jmb99 2y ago
    That doesn’t work well if the motherboard has a proprietary form factor/power requirements/riser cards/etc. Plus, shipping a motherboard is much more difficult and expensive than a CPU.
    - wmf 2y ago
      Yeah, if a server/workstation has a proprietary motherboard you should just keep the whole thing together and sell it as a unit.
      - jmb99 2y ago
        Sure, but what if the motherboard (or some other proprietary and expensive component) has a major failure? Then you're stuck with a locked CPU. Generally, the used market values standard form factor stuff more, so you'll frequently see people running a supermicro/etc server with a low end CPU wanting to upgrade to a better CPU from the same gen. So, pulling CPUs to sell to the enthusiasts in the used market from proprietary servers (HP, Dell, etc) when they go EOL has been pretty standard practice for at least a decade. There then ends up being a big pile of undesirable proprietary motherboards/chassis, and low-end CPUs for them. Both eventually get e-wasted, sometimes with the motherboards/chassis getting parted out. The reasoning for this is pretty simple. Shipping an entire server is expensive - at least $100 CAD, sometimes more. Shipping a motherboard is cheap (sub-$30), and a CPU basically free (~$10). A proprietary server cannot be upgraded down the line (whereas a standard SSI-EEB chassis can have its motherboard swapped for a newer one), which decreases its value further. If someone has a standard chassis, they can buy any standard motherboard; to sell your proprietary one, you have to find someone with a proprietary chassis and a dead/missing motherboard, a very small market (supply vastly outpacing demand). For someone to want to buy your proprietary whole server, they'll have to be willing to accept that the chassis is junk whenever they want to upgrade past its generation of hardware, which is a relatively small market. Resale value in a few will also be terrible, because no one wants old hardware they can't upgrade. The market has a pretty hard cap on value for old hardware. All of this put together means that proprietary whole servers are worth (maximum_price_for_used_server * proprietary_undesirability_multiplier) - (shipping_cost), while a standard motherboard is worth (maximum_price_for_used_server) - (shipping_cost) and an unlocked CPU is worth (maximum_price_for_used_cpu) - (shipping_cost). It can sometimes be the case that selling an unlocked CPU from a proprietary server nets more money to the seller than selling the entire server, depending on era/brand/specific CPU.
- buran77 2y ago
  It's not just EPYC, Lenovo makes heavy use of PSB (Platform Secure Boot) locking for their desktop/workstation machines too (TR or Ryzen Pro). The PSB feature is enabled by default so when installing a new CPU the user is prompted to lock it at every boot until the feature is disabled in BIOS. The locking is handled on-chip, it's permanent, and it leaves the CPU working only on the OEMs motherboard/BIOS. This poisons the used parts market. But worse, these systems are always just one BIOS update away from not booting the fused CPUs anymore (e.g. signing the firmware update with new keys). AMD included this in their CPUs because large OEMs like Lenovo and Dell asked for it. There's no extra security being offered by this feature, despite the OEMs throwing the word around every time to cover up it's only securing profit.

walterbell 2y ago

At some point, EU "circular economy" rules will need to look at secure mechanisms for transfer of decommissioned hardware ownership for sale on secondary markets. This also applies to hyperscaler server recycling, and even old Apple hardware that could be made to work with alternate operating systems. If AMD EPYC CPU policy is enforced by PSP firmware, then it can be negotiated by customers in a large enough, non-OEM, buying pool.

wmf 2y ago
The immediate solution is to not remove the CPU from the motherboard. Sell them as a unit.
- prettyStandard 2y ago
  I agree and I know you're being helpful, but as soon as that's normalized they're going to start locking the ram.
- jmb99 2y ago
  That doesn’t work well if the motherboard has a proprietary form factor/power requirements/riser cards/etc. Plus, shipping a motherboard is much more difficult and expensive than a CPU.
  - wmf 2y ago
    Yeah, if a server/workstation has a proprietary motherboard you should just keep the whole thing together and sell it as a unit.
    - jmb99 2y ago
      Sure, but what if the motherboard (or some other proprietary and expensive component) has a major failure? Then you're stuck with a locked CPU. Generally, the used market values standard form factor stuff more, so you'll frequently see people running a supermicro/etc server with a low end CPU wanting to upgrade to a better CPU from the same gen. So, pulling CPUs to sell to the enthusiasts in the used market from proprietary servers (HP, Dell, etc) when they go EOL has been pretty standard practice for at least a decade. There then ends up being a big pile of undesirable proprietary motherboards/chassis, and low-end CPUs for them. Both eventually get e-wasted, sometimes with the motherboards/chassis getting parted out. The reasoning for this is pretty simple. Shipping an entire server is expensive - at least $100 CAD, sometimes more. Shipping a motherboard is cheap (sub-$30), and a CPU basically free (~$10). A proprietary server cannot be upgraded down the line (whereas a standard SSI-EEB chassis can have its motherboard swapped for a newer one), which decreases its value further. If someone has a standard chassis, they can buy any standard motherboard; to sell your proprietary one, you have to find someone with a proprietary chassis and a dead/missing motherboard, a very small market (supply vastly outpacing demand). For someone to want to buy your proprietary whole server, they'll have to be willing to accept that the chassis is junk whenever they want to upgrade past its generation of hardware, which is a relatively small market. Resale value in a few will also be terrible, because no one wants old hardware they can't upgrade. The market has a pretty hard cap on value for old hardware. All of this put together means that proprietary whole servers are worth (maximum_price_for_used_server * proprietary_undesirability_multiplier) - (shipping_cost), while a standard motherboard is worth (maximum_price_for_used_server) - (shipping_cost) and an unlocked CPU is worth (maximum_price_for_used_cpu) - (shipping_cost). It can sometimes be the case that selling an unlocked CPU from a proprietary server nets more money to the seller than selling the entire server, depending on era/brand/specific CPU.
buran77 2y ago
It's not just EPYC, Lenovo makes heavy use of PSB (Platform Secure Boot) locking for their desktop/workstation machines too (TR or Ryzen Pro). The PSB feature is enabled by default so when installing a new CPU the user is prompted to lock it at every boot until the feature is disabled in BIOS. The locking is handled on-chip, it's permanent, and it leaves the CPU working only on the OEMs motherboard/BIOS. This poisons the used parts market. But worse, these systems are always just one BIOS update away from not booting the fused CPUs anymore (e.g. signing the firmware update with new keys). AMD included this in their CPUs because large OEMs like Lenovo and Dell asked for it. There's no extra security being offered by this feature, despite the OEMs throwing the word around every time to cover up it's only securing profit.