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I know some chinese people very well and even they have been warning about spies on campus for years. I don’t buy the xenophobia argument.

qwezxcrty 2y ago
As an Chinese expat, I have indeed heard rumors about undercovers from Chinese three letters agencies in events organized by dissentients (like falungong) and I would try my best to avoid being involved. However I hope the collateral damage to the innocent Chinese expats can be minimized. The reason of many of those to stay outside of China are concerns about the the ruling party and the desire to keep a distance from it. (Admittly also a higher quality of life, but no longer true in many cases.)
mmooss 2y ago
Regardless of who you know, don't you think these claims are partly driven by, and drive, xenophobia - the same xenophobia and nationalism being applied to many things?
- RonaldDump 2y ago
  So? You might need to confront the possibility that these are not the evils you've been led to believe they are. It appears they may well be healthy, rational, vital traits for a people to survive and thrive. A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    I don't need to wonder, I can see the vivid trail through history of oppression, hate, violence, and destruction of humanity and everything it builds. > natural behaviours Always the argument of people perpetrating evil (or nonsense): It's natural! Murder, rape, hatred ... killing your sibling or parent is natural - it's in the Bible! Starvation, disease, warfare, cheating on your partner, theft, ... every bad thing is natural. So is every good thing, and many/most/all cultures have long said you have the moral choice, in Abrahamic religions ever since we left Eden. We have the knowledge of good and evil. > A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world. Nothing is worse for humanity than warfare, and it's common cause is xenophobia and nationalism. The West has done very well embracing new immigrants. The USA is almost all immigrants or their decendents. You don't have to embrace hate or these nonsense arguments. The treasures of freedom and peace and justice are at hand; you only have to take them up. They are far more capable and productive than these fears - look at the most free, most safe, most prosperous countries in the history of the world, with no peers or competition. They are all built on universal human rights - universal!
    - RonaldDump 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - mmooss 2y ago
        This is just ignorance and hate, fabrications that don't pass even the most basic examination, all to rationalize racist white supremacy. If you want to identify dangers to you, don't do it by skin color. Look at the people telling you to be afraid, to hate, urging you to it. Those aren't good people, and they don't have your interests at heart. They are using you for truly bad things. No respected leader in US history or elsewhere does those things - think of Washington, Lincoln, Churchill, etc. The only problem is you believing this nonsense. Stop and I promise, your life will be easier and all these supposed threats will vanish as soon as they leave your mind. I spend much of my life in integrated environments, with absolutely no hint of a problem. Everything is fine, until the bigots show up. Now if we could deport bigotry, imagine how much more peace and happiness we'd have. What a waste of life it is.
        RonaldDump 2y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        mmooss 2y ago
        > This mindset is driven by hatred of White people and ignorance of White achievement and culture. Those are the lies people are telling you to encourage fear and hate - that someone out there hates you. I truly don't think about white people, achievement or culture, ever, and I never hear anyone discuss them, except white supremacist leaders trying to create hate and fear. You might as well say I hate people in some village in the Peruvian mountains - they aren't in my consciousness. Now that you mention them, that's because I don't think of them as groups that exist beyond white supremacists - in my experience, it's a worldview limited to white supremacists - nor do I think that the definition of whiteness makes sense. Nobody else I know or talk to ever mentions them, or ever talks about erasing them or anyone at all.Could you give an example of what you are concerned about? And whatever you believe or like, I hope you worship / follow / enjoy it to the fullest. My opinion is irrelevant to that. Governments are there to protect your rights, as Jefferson wrote, and I'd be outraged if anyone tried to take yours and your culture away and I'd want to protect them; I'd want our government to protect them. Where support, love, and tolerance for others stop is when the others are parasites on freedom - when they use theirs to take freedom away others. And that's what racism and white supremacism do. Then I'm going to protect the people you attack just like I would protect you. Of course the leaders of hate and fear have rationalizations why it's ok. Bad people always do. Tthe devil never says 'I'm the devil and these are bad things'. People are misled, seduced, and hate and fear have historically been the most common means. Let's all protect each other's freedoms. That's what it's all about. Let's get together and then we're invincible. People who want to weaken you try to split you apart.

qwezxcrty 2y ago

As an Chinese expat, I have indeed heard rumors about undercovers from Chinese three letters agencies in events organized by dissentients (like falungong) and I would try my best to avoid being involved. However I hope the collateral damage to the innocent Chinese expats can be minimized. The reason of many of those to stay outside of China are concerns about the the ruling party and the desire to keep a distance from it. (Admittly also a higher quality of life, but no longer true in many cases.)

mmooss 2y ago

Regardless of who you know, don't you think these claims are partly driven by, and drive, xenophobia - the same xenophobia and nationalism being applied to many things?

RonaldDump 2y ago
So? You might need to confront the possibility that these are not the evils you've been led to believe they are. It appears they may well be healthy, rational, vital traits for a people to survive and thrive. A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world.
- mmooss 2y ago
  I don't need to wonder, I can see the vivid trail through history of oppression, hate, violence, and destruction of humanity and everything it builds. > natural behaviours Always the argument of people perpetrating evil (or nonsense): It's natural! Murder, rape, hatred ... killing your sibling or parent is natural - it's in the Bible! Starvation, disease, warfare, cheating on your partner, theft, ... every bad thing is natural. So is every good thing, and many/most/all cultures have long said you have the moral choice, in Abrahamic religions ever since we left Eden. We have the knowledge of good and evil. > A population that actively resists or perverts these natural behaviours through xenophilia is not long for this world. Nothing is worse for humanity than warfare, and it's common cause is xenophobia and nationalism. The West has done very well embracing new immigrants. The USA is almost all immigrants or their decendents. You don't have to embrace hate or these nonsense arguments. The treasures of freedom and peace and justice are at hand; you only have to take them up. They are far more capable and productive than these fears - look at the most free, most safe, most prosperous countries in the history of the world, with no peers or competition. They are all built on universal human rights - universal!
  - RonaldDump 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - mmooss 2y ago
      This is just ignorance and hate, fabrications that don't pass even the most basic examination, all to rationalize racist white supremacy. If you want to identify dangers to you, don't do it by skin color. Look at the people telling you to be afraid, to hate, urging you to it. Those aren't good people, and they don't have your interests at heart. They are using you for truly bad things. No respected leader in US history or elsewhere does those things - think of Washington, Lincoln, Churchill, etc. The only problem is you believing this nonsense. Stop and I promise, your life will be easier and all these supposed threats will vanish as soon as they leave your mind. I spend much of my life in integrated environments, with absolutely no hint of a problem. Everything is fine, until the bigots show up. Now if we could deport bigotry, imagine how much more peace and happiness we'd have. What a waste of life it is.
      - RonaldDump 2y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        mmooss 2y ago
        > This mindset is driven by hatred of White people and ignorance of White achievement and culture. Those are the lies people are telling you to encourage fear and hate - that someone out there hates you. I truly don't think about white people, achievement or culture, ever, and I never hear anyone discuss them, except white supremacist leaders trying to create hate and fear. You might as well say I hate people in some village in the Peruvian mountains - they aren't in my consciousness. Now that you mention them, that's because I don't think of them as groups that exist beyond white supremacists - in my experience, it's a worldview limited to white supremacists - nor do I think that the definition of whiteness makes sense. Nobody else I know or talk to ever mentions them, or ever talks about erasing them or anyone at all.Could you give an example of what you are concerned about? And whatever you believe or like, I hope you worship / follow / enjoy it to the fullest. My opinion is irrelevant to that. Governments are there to protect your rights, as Jefferson wrote, and I'd be outraged if anyone tried to take yours and your culture away and I'd want to protect them; I'd want our government to protect them. Where support, love, and tolerance for others stop is when the others are parasites on freedom - when they use theirs to take freedom away others. And that's what racism and white supremacism do. Then I'm going to protect the people you attack just like I would protect you. Of course the leaders of hate and fear have rationalizations why it's ok. Bad people always do. Tthe devil never says 'I'm the devil and these are bad things'. People are misled, seduced, and hate and fear have historically been the most common means. Let's all protect each other's freedoms. That's what it's all about. Let's get together and then we're invincible. People who want to weaken you try to split you apart.