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Apple: Does backflips to protect your data Apple's competition: Steals your data outright Most of this thread: How could Apple act this way

bergie 2y ago
> Apple: Does backflips to protect your data That's what their marketing says. I'm not sure how far you can actually trust that. They're an ad and media company as well.
- sgammon 2y ago
  I am merely comparing homomorphic encryption, client-side vectorization and ML, and so on, to not doing those things. Nothing to do with marketing. Read the manual
  - RyanHamilton 2y ago
    >>Apple: Does backflips to protect your data Yet they enabled this feature by default. Disabled by default would be easier than a backflip?
    - sgammon 2y ago
      The feature is not unsafe in the first place, so turning it on by default grants useful functionality without risk.
ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
You're kidding yourself if you think apple is in the business of protecting your data beyond marketing itself as such. Just like all it's competition it's in the business of using your data like them.
- sgammon 2y ago
  > You're kidding yourself if you think apple is in the business of protecting your data beyond marketing itself as such. It is entirely possible to create a business where others ignore user demands, like, say, privacy. Apple does not have a massive advertising incentive to process user data as others do. I am not a huge Apple fan (typing this from my Windows machine), but I am not ashamed to admit that some companies are good at some things, and others at other things (insane idea I know) Apple does not have to homomorphically encrypt your data. They do so because they have "made privacy a feature," as they say in their marketing. You can also just read the research papers or code if you want, since they have published those, too. Have you read those?
  - ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
    No I've not read them, I don't see why I would as I'm not an apple customer. But I do wonder if apple are in charge/control the encryption keys to your encrypted data...
    - sgammon 2y ago
      They are not, that is what makes it secure and why you should read the manual.
      - ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
        So no third party, including law enforcement can access data held by apple? Including apple? At any point? I'm asking these questions because I'm definitely not going to read the manual, for the reason I've already said, you seem to have read the manual, and I find it hard to believe. I'm only aware that apple offers advanced protection on your uploaded data, which you have to opt into, which might be what you're talking about...?
        sgammon 2y ago
        > So no third party, including law enforcement can access data held by apple? Including apple? At any point? Correct. iMessage already delivered the features you are describing. The features described here are even stronger, since there is no centralized key escrow.

bergie 2y ago

> Apple: Does backflips to protect your data That's what their marketing says. I'm not sure how far you can actually trust that. They're an ad and media company as well.

sgammon 2y ago
I am merely comparing homomorphic encryption, client-side vectorization and ML, and so on, to not doing those things. Nothing to do with marketing. Read the manual
- RyanHamilton 2y ago
  >>Apple: Does backflips to protect your data Yet they enabled this feature by default. Disabled by default would be easier than a backflip?
  - sgammon 2y ago
    The feature is not unsafe in the first place, so turning it on by default grants useful functionality without risk.

ghjfrdghibt 2y ago

You're kidding yourself if you think apple is in the business of protecting your data beyond marketing itself as such. Just like all it's competition it's in the business of using your data like them.

sgammon 2y ago
> You're kidding yourself if you think apple is in the business of protecting your data beyond marketing itself as such. It is entirely possible to create a business where others ignore user demands, like, say, privacy. Apple does not have a massive advertising incentive to process user data as others do. I am not a huge Apple fan (typing this from my Windows machine), but I am not ashamed to admit that some companies are good at some things, and others at other things (insane idea I know) Apple does not have to homomorphically encrypt your data. They do so because they have "made privacy a feature," as they say in their marketing. You can also just read the research papers or code if you want, since they have published those, too. Have you read those?
- ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
  No I've not read them, I don't see why I would as I'm not an apple customer. But I do wonder if apple are in charge/control the encryption keys to your encrypted data...
  - sgammon 2y ago
    They are not, that is what makes it secure and why you should read the manual.
    - ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
      So no third party, including law enforcement can access data held by apple? Including apple? At any point? I'm asking these questions because I'm definitely not going to read the manual, for the reason I've already said, you seem to have read the manual, and I find it hard to believe. I'm only aware that apple offers advanced protection on your uploaded data, which you have to opt into, which might be what you're talking about...?
      - sgammon 2y ago
        > So no third party, including law enforcement can access data held by apple? Including apple? At any point? Correct. iMessage already delivered the features you are describing. The features described here are even stronger, since there is no centralized key escrow.