4 ms·

If you accept Android as an option, then GrapheneOS probably check a lot of your boxes on an OS level. GrapheneOS developers sit between you and Google and make

by mikae1 2y ago

If you accept Android as an option, then GrapheneOS probably check a lot of your boxes on an OS level. GrapheneOS developers sit between you and Google and make sure that shit like this isn't introduced without the user's knowledge. They actively strip out crap that goes against users interests and add features that empower us. I find that the popular apps for basic operation from F-Droid do a very good job of not screwing with the user either. I'm talking about DAVx⁵, Etar, Fossify Gallery, K-9/Thunderbird, AntennaPod etc. No nonsense software that does what I want and nothing more. I've been running deGoogled Android devices for over a decade now for private use and I've been given Apple devices from work during all those years. I still find find the iOS devices to be a terrible computing experience. There's a feeling of being reduced to a mere consumer. GrapheneOS is the best mobile OS I've ever tried. If you get a Pixel device, it's dead simple to install via your desktop web browser[1] and has been zero maintenance. Really! [1] https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web

Nullabillity 2y ago
As the GP already mentioned, F-Droid (as great as it is) won't help you access your bank account.
doublebind 2y ago
That's great... for the HN reader. However, how is that supposed to work for your significant other, or your mother, or your indifferent-to-technology friend? Don't get me wrong, I also strive to keep my device's information private but, at the same time, I realize this has no practical use for most users.
- mikae1 2y ago
  We can act on two levels. We (as a society) can work for regulation and we (computery people) can take direct action by developing and using software and hardware that works in the user's interest. One does not exclude the other. That said. You can order a Pixel with GrapheneOS pre-installed and Google Apps and services can be isolated.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  You install it from them. Past the initial install they get OTA updates. Having said that it doesn't prevent them to check the "enable network" option when installing apps.
- consteval 2y ago
  The solution is the general populace becoming more tech literate, much like I became more literate in the yellow pages 20 years ago. The reality is these are no longer mere tools, they are instruments for conducting life. They are a prerequisite to just about any activity, much like driving in the US. We expect each and every citizen to have an intimate understanding of driving, including nuances, and an understanding of any and all traffic laws. And we expect them to do it in fractions of a second. Because that is the cost of utilizing those instruments to conduct life.
mort96 2y ago
Running a custom ROM locks you out of almost all decent phone hardware on the market since most have locked bootloaders, and it locks you out of a ton of apps people rely on such as banking and money transfer apps. You must recognise that it's not a practical solution for most people.
- machinestops 2y ago
  Graphene mitigates the locked bootloader issue by only supporting one line of phones (Pixel), which have unlocked bootloaders. A large amount of work has been put into making Graphene specifically work with banking apps. Mine does, for instance.
  - UnreachableCode 2y ago
    Are Calyx or Lineage worth a look? It’s a tough choice between the 3.
    - machinestops 2y ago
      I've used Lineage. I'd say it's worth a look, yes. I got a Pixel for Graphene, though.
    - opan 2y ago
      I've happily used LineageOS without gapps for years across several OnePlus devices. If I ever need a new phone I check their supported devices list to pick, and the stock ROM on my new device gets overwritten the day it arrives. Currently using a OnePlus 8T. When I move on from this device as my primary someday, I may put postmarketOS on it to extend its usefulness.
    - chickenfeed 2y ago
      Don't forget Anom. (A cautionary tale.) https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/146/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/146/
- mikae1 2y ago
  > Running a custom ROM locks you out of almost all decent phone hardware on the market since most have locked bootloaders GrapheneOS only works on Pixel devices. Pixel devices are fine. We have reached a point where just about every mid-tier device is fine, really. I run my devices until they are FUBAR or can't be updated due to EOL. EOL for Android (and GrapheneOS) is ~7 years from the release date now. > it locks you out of a ton of apps people rely on such as banking and money transfer apps. These can be installed and isolated using work or user profiles in GrapheneOS. Also as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538853 points out, a lot of work has been put into making Graphene work with banking apps[1]. > You must recognise that it's not a practical solution for most people. Of course I do. We can act on two levels. We (as a society) can work for regulation and we (computery people) can take direct action by developing and using software and hardware that works in the user's interest. One does not exclude the other. [1] https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

by mikae1 2y ago

Nullabillity 2y ago

As the GP already mentioned, F-Droid (as great as it is) won't help you access your bank account.

doublebind 2y ago

That's great... for the HN reader. However, how is that supposed to work for your significant other, or your mother, or your indifferent-to-technology friend? Don't get me wrong, I also strive to keep my device's information private but, at the same time, I realize this has no practical use for most users.

mikae1 2y ago
We can act on two levels. We (as a society) can work for regulation and we (computery people) can take direct action by developing and using software and hardware that works in the user's interest. One does not exclude the other. That said. You can order a Pixel with GrapheneOS pre-installed and Google Apps and services can be isolated.
prmoustache 2y ago
You install it from them. Past the initial install they get OTA updates. Having said that it doesn't prevent them to check the "enable network" option when installing apps.
consteval 2y ago
The solution is the general populace becoming more tech literate, much like I became more literate in the yellow pages 20 years ago. The reality is these are no longer mere tools, they are instruments for conducting life. They are a prerequisite to just about any activity, much like driving in the US. We expect each and every citizen to have an intimate understanding of driving, including nuances, and an understanding of any and all traffic laws. And we expect them to do it in fractions of a second. Because that is the cost of utilizing those instruments to conduct life.

mort96 2y ago

Running a custom ROM locks you out of almost all decent phone hardware on the market since most have locked bootloaders, and it locks you out of a ton of apps people rely on such as banking and money transfer apps. You must recognise that it's not a practical solution for most people.

machinestops 2y ago
Graphene mitigates the locked bootloader issue by only supporting one line of phones (Pixel), which have unlocked bootloaders. A large amount of work has been put into making Graphene specifically work with banking apps. Mine does, for instance.
- UnreachableCode 2y ago
  Are Calyx or Lineage worth a look? It’s a tough choice between the 3.
  - machinestops 2y ago
    I've used Lineage. I'd say it's worth a look, yes. I got a Pixel for Graphene, though.
  - opan 2y ago
    I've happily used LineageOS without gapps for years across several OnePlus devices. If I ever need a new phone I check their supported devices list to pick, and the stock ROM on my new device gets overwritten the day it arrives. Currently using a OnePlus 8T. When I move on from this device as my primary someday, I may put postmarketOS on it to extend its usefulness.
  - chickenfeed 2y ago
    Don't forget Anom. (A cautionary tale.) https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/146/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/146/
mikae1 2y ago
> Running a custom ROM locks you out of almost all decent phone hardware on the market since most have locked bootloaders GrapheneOS only works on Pixel devices. Pixel devices are fine. We have reached a point where just about every mid-tier device is fine, really. I run my devices until they are FUBAR or can't be updated due to EOL. EOL for Android (and GrapheneOS) is ~7 years from the release date now. > it locks you out of a ton of apps people rely on such as banking and money transfer apps. These can be installed and isolated using work or user profiles in GrapheneOS. Also as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538853 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42538853 points out, a lot of work has been put into making Graphene work with banking apps[1]. > You must recognise that it's not a practical solution for most people. Of course I do. We can act on two levels. We (as a society) can work for regulation and we (computery people) can take direct action by developing and using software and hardware that works in the user's interest. One does not exclude the other. [1] https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...