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From 2019 to 2023, the lowest iconome Americans have had their real (inflation adjusted) wages increase by 13.2%. The US median income is also the highest in th

From 2019 to 2023, the lowest iconome Americans have had their real (inflation adjusted) wages increase by 13.2%. The US median income is also the highest in the world when adjusted for cost of living. Perhaps the increase in homelessness is because local NIMBYS efficevly ban new housing projects? Or perhaps this post is trying to get an emotional response on a complex and extremely difficult to solve issue?

jaggs 2y ago
Citation please?
- daedrdev 2y ago
  Sure, I was arguing with someone about the US once so I have these sources saved. Lower income wage gains in the US: https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2023/ https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2023/ 13.2% from 2019 to 2023 Median income (one of the charts if you scroll is median income per courtly adjusted for PPP) https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/2024/06/society-at-a-glance-2024_08001b73/full-report/component-12.html#indicator-d1e8404-8cd0a55a48 https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/2024/06/society-at-a-gl... Luxembourg is higher, but given they are a very strange city-state I feel like we can ignore them.
  - jaggs 2y ago
    Thanks very much, very useful. I notice that the first wage link states: "Wage rates remain insufficient for individuals and families working to make ends meet. Nowhere can a worker at the 10th percentile of the wage distribution earn enough to meet a basic family budget." Which is probably a more pertinent fact to note?
betaby 2y ago
Absolute $$$ doesn't matter if they can't get housing. One can get from $100 to $200 - 100% increase, yet that changes nothing.
- orionblastar 2y ago
  Why are housing prices so high?
  - betaby 2y ago
    Most often media reports over-regulation/regulatory capture type of problems, including but not limited to zoning and NIMBY. I don't see any solution to those in my lifetime. Politicians talks about non-solutions only.
  - occz 2y ago
    Financialization of homes leading to incentives against construction of new homes at sufficient rates to reduce the supply shortage, among other factors.
- daedrdev 2y ago
  Its almost like I predicted your comment and brought up median income adjusted for cost of living in my second sentence.
cyberax 2y ago
> Perhaps the increase in homelessness is because local NIMBYS efficevly ban new housing projects? No. Housing projects lead to nothing but misery and more homelessness. The increases are almost 100% drug-driven. Because of drugs, people are not _exiting_ homelessness (the average time of being homeless is growing, according to the 2-year counts). The answers, counterintuitively, to strengthen the NIMBYs and make sure it's impossible to build ANYTHING in cities. Then promote the remote work and suburbs/rural areas via tax incentives. The US has millions of square kilometers of perfectly good land available for housing. There's zero reason to try to cram people into the Human Cube ( https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/the-human-cube-the-volume-of-humanity https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/the-human-cube-the-volume-of-... ).
- occz 2y ago
  >No. Housing projects lead to nothing but misery and more homelessness. Now there's a hot take if I ever saw one.
  - kcplate 2y ago
    Well, it’s an accurate statement, at least how it’s been historically done in the US.
- ofcourseyoudo 2y ago
  > make sure it's impossible to build ANYTHING in cities this will do wonders to the rental market (and car usage and the climate)
- daedrdev 2y ago
  Clearly people want to move into cities. The increased prices of housing makes that beyond clear, to deny it is to deny basic economics. Thus why shouldn't we build housing where people show with their money that they want to live? Its worked in several US cities when tried, who have even seen housing prices go down while building very reasonable 3-6 story apartment buildings.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >The US has millions of square kilometers of perfectly good land available for housing. There's zero reason to try to cram people into Population density makes mass transit feasible.
brendoelfrendo 2y ago
All of these things can be true. Based on this (https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/ https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/) for the same time period of 2019 to 2023, the CPI-adjusted median home price in the US went up by roughly 21%. So, the average American can both see their income increase but also find a home further out of reach. The point of this post and this article is not about how people are doing in inflation adjusted terms, but the startling and sharp increase in wealth inequality we're seeing.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jaggs 2y ago

Citation please?

daedrdev 2y ago
Sure, I was arguing with someone about the US once so I have these sources saved. Lower income wage gains in the US: https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2023/ https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2023/ 13.2% from 2019 to 2023 Median income (one of the charts if you scroll is median income per courtly adjusted for PPP) https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/2024/06/society-at-a-glance-2024_08001b73/full-report/component-12.html#indicator-d1e8404-8cd0a55a48 https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/2024/06/society-at-a-gl... Luxembourg is higher, but given they are a very strange city-state I feel like we can ignore them.
- jaggs 2y ago
  Thanks very much, very useful. I notice that the first wage link states: "Wage rates remain insufficient for individuals and families working to make ends meet. Nowhere can a worker at the 10th percentile of the wage distribution earn enough to meet a basic family budget." Which is probably a more pertinent fact to note?

betaby 2y ago

Absolute $$$ doesn't matter if they can't get housing. One can get from $100 to $200 - 100% increase, yet that changes nothing.

orionblastar 2y ago
Why are housing prices so high?
- betaby 2y ago
  Most often media reports over-regulation/regulatory capture type of problems, including but not limited to zoning and NIMBY. I don't see any solution to those in my lifetime. Politicians talks about non-solutions only.
- occz 2y ago
  Financialization of homes leading to incentives against construction of new homes at sufficient rates to reduce the supply shortage, among other factors.
daedrdev 2y ago
Its almost like I predicted your comment and brought up median income adjusted for cost of living in my second sentence.

cyberax 2y ago

> Perhaps the increase in homelessness is because local NIMBYS efficevly ban new housing projects? No. Housing projects lead to nothing but misery and more homelessness. The increases are almost 100% drug-driven. Because of drugs, people are not _exiting_ homelessness (the average time of being homeless is growing, according to the 2-year counts). The answers, counterintuitively, to strengthen the NIMBYs and make sure it's impossible to build ANYTHING in cities. Then promote the remote work and suburbs/rural areas via tax incentives. The US has millions of square kilometers of perfectly good land available for housing. There's zero reason to try to cram people into the Human Cube ( https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/the-human-cube-the-volume-of-humanity https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/the-human-cube-the-volume-of-... ).

occz 2y ago
>No. Housing projects lead to nothing but misery and more homelessness. Now there's a hot take if I ever saw one.
- kcplate 2y ago
  Well, it’s an accurate statement, at least how it’s been historically done in the US.
ofcourseyoudo 2y ago
> make sure it's impossible to build ANYTHING in cities this will do wonders to the rental market (and car usage and the climate)
daedrdev 2y ago
Clearly people want to move into cities. The increased prices of housing makes that beyond clear, to deny it is to deny basic economics. Thus why shouldn't we build housing where people show with their money that they want to live? Its worked in several US cities when tried, who have even seen housing prices go down while building very reasonable 3-6 story apartment buildings.
zahlman 2y ago
>The US has millions of square kilometers of perfectly good land available for housing. There's zero reason to try to cram people into Population density makes mass transit feasible.

brendoelfrendo 2y ago

All of these things can be true. Based on this (https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/ https://dqydj.com/historical-home-prices/) for the same time period of 2019 to 2023, the CPI-adjusted median home price in the US went up by roughly 21%. So, the average American can both see their income increase but also find a home further out of reach. The point of this post and this article is not about how people are doing in inflation adjusted terms, but the startling and sharp increase in wealth inequality we're seeing.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]