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People go to a technical college for this. The college you describe should introduce the student to a wide variety ideas and thoughts and history. When that i

by ipaddr 2y ago

People go to a technical college for this. The college you describe should introduce the student to a wide variety ideas and thoughts and history. When that is done going to a technical college to actual learn the craft is the better choice for those not programming in their spare time at a high level. Expecting hands on skills from a degree isn't fair because it is not what a degree means.

robomartin 2y ago
> Expecting hands on skills from a degree isn't fair because it is not what a degree means. I have heard this argument many times and happen to think it is a false argument. Universities (in the US) are not what they used to be. They are not culturally open. They have become dangerous monoculture indoctrination centers. STEM degrees, due to their nature, are not impacted as hard as are others. People in other non-STEM paths are in full-on monoculture indoctrination programs, even if not explicitly stated. What isn't fair is for people to attend university in the US, graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and not end-up with at least two things: Marketable skills that are competitive with anyone from other countries and, well, culture. It just so happens that I attended both high school and university abroad and in the US. My family moved about due to business when I was in school. I have perspective to offer from the UK, US and Argentina. I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that US education has been an unmitigated disaster for DECADES. The problem with this is that, even if changes were to be made today, it will also take decades for the results to surface. I am an immigrant in the US. I graduated from high school with a far deeper and broader cultural foundation than I would say most college graduates in the US. This is no joke. And this is why, if I were to use a nasty generalization, Americans are regarded as dumb and ignorant outside of the US. Of course, this isn't absolutely fair, it's a stereotype, and stereotypes do not apply to the entire population. However, there are measurable elements of this. Our schools are broken, from the bottom up. We have a country where people graduate from university actually believing that communism and socialism are good things. This sounds so fucking stupid to immigrants who have actually lived in these regimes that I cannot even begin to describe it. It is surreal to see how the US has allowed this to happen. To go back to what you said: "Expecting hands on skills from a degree isn't fair" No my friend, what isn't fair is to graduate with $100K to $300K in debt and have that degree be so dubious that you have to endure five technical interviews before someone considers hiring you. And, in addition to that, the jobs you could have had go to H1B's because companies can make a case that you are not adequate for the job. We should not make our children pay for substandard education. That is not fair. My solution is simple: Stop pretending that we are teaching real culture and fire all the ideological assholes from these universities. Nobody should be forced to pay one single cent for this crap. Teaching should be a meritocracy. Our schools are filled with "teachers" and "professors" that are worse than YouTube tutorial authors. Why are we making our children pay for mediocrity and incompetence. I remember one of my kids having a science teacher in middle school who actually taught his classes that the moon does not rotate about its axis. And that was not the only incredibly ignorant thing he taught. I went to war and tried to get him fired. He had no business teaching science at all. He was a Chiropractor who got his teaching credentials and they gave him the science spot because he had "Dr." in his name. Well, I could not get him hired. The union protected him. Jokes on me, he retired after 30 years on the job with full pension and healthcare benefits for life. Who knows how many kids he ruined through his "teachings". Teachers should be paid very well and held to a very high standard. In university STEM fields, teach STEM and only STEM. Graduate people with world class skills. Reduce the cost by eliminating that 25% of coursework that no employer cares about. If a student chooses to study non STEM subjects, sure, be my guest, they can pay for them and there are no loan guarantees for the universities (which will lower their cost). Critically, they should not be conditions for graduation. We can pretend US colleges are about culture all we want. However, the evidence in the real world is that they do a shit job across the board and change is badly needed.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  you got this from one episode on foxnews or you had to watch many to get all this together? :) where do you think bezos, zuck, gates, jobs… went to school - fucking Argentina?! what a nonsense drivel you wrote - quite insane! us educational system has a lot of issues. tough to expect otherwise given the size as well as the fact that one of the two major political parties in the US likes their voters dumb - the dumber the better. but it is still the best educational system on the planet, otherwise the kids of US elite would be flocking schools in fucking Argentina (they are not and never will)
  - Bobbyddxxd 2y ago
    "one of the two major political parties in the US likes their voters dumb - the dumber the better." Not dumb enough to get a useless degree in feminist basket weaving on a 200k loan though..
  - robomartin 2y ago
    > you got this from one episode on foxnews This is such a common and tired meme. It aims to stomp on something that someone said with a nonsensical argument. A bit of shooting the messenger and an appeal to authority (the veil attack being that everything that isn't Fox News is true and pure). Fox News has its problem, every media outlet has. And yet, 95% of so-called reliable "news" outlets lied to the entire nation for over three years about such things as Biden's cognitive problems (and much more). Be careful who you choose as your source for truth. You should not trust anyone in the media. Yes, that means FNN included. To address your personal attack: I had better math, history, science and, yes, English scores in public high school in Massachusetts as a foreign student educated in Argentina. I could read and write better than most in my class. I knew more about history, geography, philosophy and was better at math, physics, chemistry, etc. So, say what you want, at least this one data point, as flawed as it might be, actually lived through many experiences that showed me the real differences. Later on I made sure my own children did not fall victims to these inadequacies by supplementing the substandard education (at a world level) with learning at home. And this isn't about just one country outside the US. For example, I have friends in Singapore, Italy, Spain, Germany and other places whos kids can run circles around your average US-educated high-school graduate. > where do you think bezos, zuck, gates, jobs… went to school - fucking Argentina?! One would think that before someone decides to make a comment like that they would take a few minutes to actually educate themselves and understand what they are about to say. Go learn about the people you listed there and understand. Your insulting comments about Argentina (or nations other than the US by extension) is precisely why people around the world have formed certain opinions about Americans. You lack perspective, culture and knowledge about what you owe the rest of the world. Be humble, learn a little history and understand the shoulders you are standing on. If the history of the modern world is a meter long, the US is responsible for approximately 1 millimeter of it, if that. Here, I'll give you a push-start: Go read about the history of the artificial heart, heart bypass surgery and blood transfusions. And, while you are at it, make a list of science, engineering and cultural contributions from around the world for some perspective. You can believe anything you wish. Or you can make an attempt to understand reality and be a part of the solution. I want things to change for the better. It appears that you actually believe we have the best system of education. Well, I am not sure what to say other than: You are wrong. We might actually have one of the worst.

by ipaddr 2y ago

robomartin 2y ago

> Expecting hands on skills from a degree isn't fair because it is not what a degree means. I have heard this argument many times and happen to think it is a false argument. Universities (in the US) are not what they used to be. They are not culturally open. They have become dangerous monoculture indoctrination centers. STEM degrees, due to their nature, are not impacted as hard as are others. People in other non-STEM paths are in full-on monoculture indoctrination programs, even if not explicitly stated. What isn't fair is for people to attend university in the US, graduate with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and not end-up with at least two things: Marketable skills that are competitive with anyone from other countries and, well, culture. It just so happens that I attended both high school and university abroad and in the US. My family moved about due to business when I was in school. I have perspective to offer from the UK, US and Argentina. I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that US education has been an unmitigated disaster for DECADES. The problem with this is that, even if changes were to be made today, it will also take decades for the results to surface. I am an immigrant in the US. I graduated from high school with a far deeper and broader cultural foundation than I would say most college graduates in the US. This is no joke. And this is why, if I were to use a nasty generalization, Americans are regarded as dumb and ignorant outside of the US. Of course, this isn't absolutely fair, it's a stereotype, and stereotypes do not apply to the entire population. However, there are measurable elements of this. Our schools are broken, from the bottom up. We have a country where people graduate from university actually believing that communism and socialism are good things. This sounds so fucking stupid to immigrants who have actually lived in these regimes that I cannot even begin to describe it. It is surreal to see how the US has allowed this to happen. To go back to what you said: "Expecting hands on skills from a degree isn't fair" No my friend, what isn't fair is to graduate with $100K to $300K in debt and have that degree be so dubious that you have to endure five technical interviews before someone considers hiring you. And, in addition to that, the jobs you could have had go to H1B's because companies can make a case that you are not adequate for the job. We should not make our children pay for substandard education. That is not fair. My solution is simple: Stop pretending that we are teaching real culture and fire all the ideological assholes from these universities. Nobody should be forced to pay one single cent for this crap. Teaching should be a meritocracy. Our schools are filled with "teachers" and "professors" that are worse than YouTube tutorial authors. Why are we making our children pay for mediocrity and incompetence. I remember one of my kids having a science teacher in middle school who actually taught his classes that the moon does not rotate about its axis. And that was not the only incredibly ignorant thing he taught. I went to war and tried to get him fired. He had no business teaching science at all. He was a Chiropractor who got his teaching credentials and they gave him the science spot because he had "Dr." in his name. Well, I could not get him hired. The union protected him. Jokes on me, he retired after 30 years on the job with full pension and healthcare benefits for life. Who knows how many kids he ruined through his "teachings". Teachers should be paid very well and held to a very high standard. In university STEM fields, teach STEM and only STEM. Graduate people with world class skills. Reduce the cost by eliminating that 25% of coursework that no employer cares about. If a student chooses to study non STEM subjects, sure, be my guest, they can pay for them and there are no loan guarantees for the universities (which will lower their cost). Critically, they should not be conditions for graduation. We can pretend US colleges are about culture all we want. However, the evidence in the real world is that they do a shit job across the board and change is badly needed.

bdangubic 2y ago
you got this from one episode on foxnews or you had to watch many to get all this together? :) where do you think bezos, zuck, gates, jobs… went to school - fucking Argentina?! what a nonsense drivel you wrote - quite insane! us educational system has a lot of issues. tough to expect otherwise given the size as well as the fact that one of the two major political parties in the US likes their voters dumb - the dumber the better. but it is still the best educational system on the planet, otherwise the kids of US elite would be flocking schools in fucking Argentina (they are not and never will)
- Bobbyddxxd 2y ago
  "one of the two major political parties in the US likes their voters dumb - the dumber the better." Not dumb enough to get a useless degree in feminist basket weaving on a 200k loan though..
- robomartin 2y ago
  > you got this from one episode on foxnews This is such a common and tired meme. It aims to stomp on something that someone said with a nonsensical argument. A bit of shooting the messenger and an appeal to authority (the veil attack being that everything that isn't Fox News is true and pure). Fox News has its problem, every media outlet has. And yet, 95% of so-called reliable "news" outlets lied to the entire nation for over three years about such things as Biden's cognitive problems (and much more). Be careful who you choose as your source for truth. You should not trust anyone in the media. Yes, that means FNN included. To address your personal attack: I had better math, history, science and, yes, English scores in public high school in Massachusetts as a foreign student educated in Argentina. I could read and write better than most in my class. I knew more about history, geography, philosophy and was better at math, physics, chemistry, etc. So, say what you want, at least this one data point, as flawed as it might be, actually lived through many experiences that showed me the real differences. Later on I made sure my own children did not fall victims to these inadequacies by supplementing the substandard education (at a world level) with learning at home. And this isn't about just one country outside the US. For example, I have friends in Singapore, Italy, Spain, Germany and other places whos kids can run circles around your average US-educated high-school graduate. > where do you think bezos, zuck, gates, jobs… went to school - fucking Argentina?! One would think that before someone decides to make a comment like that they would take a few minutes to actually educate themselves and understand what they are about to say. Go learn about the people you listed there and understand. Your insulting comments about Argentina (or nations other than the US by extension) is precisely why people around the world have formed certain opinions about Americans. You lack perspective, culture and knowledge about what you owe the rest of the world. Be humble, learn a little history and understand the shoulders you are standing on. If the history of the modern world is a meter long, the US is responsible for approximately 1 millimeter of it, if that. Here, I'll give you a push-start: Go read about the history of the artificial heart, heart bypass surgery and blood transfusions. And, while you are at it, make a list of science, engineering and cultural contributions from around the world for some perspective. You can believe anything you wish. Or you can make an attempt to understand reality and be a part of the solution. I want things to change for the better. It appears that you actually believe we have the best system of education. Well, I am not sure what to say other than: You are wrong. We might actually have one of the worst.