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> Those cabinets, which Joco says are FDNY-approved, are a growing vertical for the startup, particularly in NYC where battery fires have run rampant due to uns

> Those cabinets, which Joco says are FDNY-approved, are a growing vertical for the startup, particularly in NYC where battery fires have run rampant due to unsafe charging practices, leading many buildings to ban e-bikes and e-scooters. First off, there's no such thing as "unsafe charging practices." The chargers are completely automatic, and all ebike batteries, even the really cheap ones the couriers prefer, have battery management system boards that cut off the battery if it gets over[voltage/temperature/current]. Second, _not a single fire_ in NYC was due to an e-bike. Every single one of them was an electric scooter or "personal mobility device" ie onewheel, hoverboard, etc. But NYFD kept calling them "ebike fires" and this was not a "mistake" (see below) https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/04/26/approximately-none-recent-e-bike-fires-new-york-involved-e-bike https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2022/04/26/app... Third, the NYC government has a long history of hateboners for ebikes. NYPD regularly would do "raids" and confiscate e-bikes from delivery workers, which they could get back for several hundred dollars - a fine greater than nearly any motor vehicle infraction there is. It amounted to a city-government-run-mafia shakedown of some of the city's poorest residents. This is just more of the same; NYFD are purposefully lumping in e-bikes with the devices actually causing fires, to push a narrative that eBikes are dangerous.

ericyd 2y ago
TIL "hateboners" is a word
doctorpangloss 2y ago
Yeah but why? Why hassle these guys so much? The delivery bikers take cars off the streets, they are serving people who are willingly paying, and an e-bike is less likely to kill a pedestrian. From the POV of fire and police, it’s much harder to commit crimes on e-bikes, and in absolute numbers I’m confident the fire department responds more frequently to incidents with cars. It seems like a win win for everyone in the community. I understand why it’s a culture war. It violates beliefs. But is there truly any rational basis? I understand the aesthetics of a delivery biker violating a traffic law for cars looks bad, that it pisses people off. But brother… it’s an urban environment: it’s going to be chock full of shit that pisses you off. Why this?
WillAdams 2y ago
If that's the case, why was at least one such ebike battery the subject of a CPSC recall? https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/E-Bikes-Recalled-Due-to-Fire-Explosion-and-Burn-Hazards-Distributed-by-Ancheer https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/E-Bikes-Recalled-Due-to-Fi... from: https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-batteries-delivery-workers/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-... There definitely needs to be better regulation/inspection: https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/us/nyc-ebike-store-fire-lithium-ion-batteries/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/us/nyc-ebike-store-fire-lithi... but agree that a more even-handed approach to repair is warranted: https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/ https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-... and I'd be glad to be pointed to articles from independent sources which are impartial. The Manhattan apartment building my son lives in suffered such a fire --- fortunately my son and his dog made it out safely, and his unit only had smoke damage, but he was out of his apartment for months of moving from one motel room to another every 30 days once his insurance kicked in. That said, folks need to be more respectful of and careful with batteries in general --- my brother-in-law's home was damaged by a fire caused by a digital camera battery over a decade ago.
throwaway38211 2y ago
Regarding your second point, your own source says that none of the five fires -over a two day period- were not ebike fires. You’re making it sound like no ebike has ever caught fire at all. “none of the New York fires occurring April 20 and 21 involved an e-bike“ That article also says “Now, some fires certainly originate with e-bike batteries and some e-scooter batteries are probably safe.” To your first point, there absolutely are unsafe charging practices, such as charging immediately after coming in from the cold without letting the battery warm up, which is one reason why these fires occur most often in winter. I’m very pro ebike, but can’t just act like they don’t have these issues…
- jeffbee 2y ago
  > charging immediately after coming in from the cold Why should this be any concern of the end user? The BMS is supposed to manage that condition.
relyks 2y ago
This is not true. The article you linked only mentioned one particular instance that the battery fire was not the result of a e-bike battery. There have been fires due to bad e-bike batteries (see https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-batteries-delivery-workers/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-..., and https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/01/31/ebike-battery-fire-hazards-fdny/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/01/31/ebike-battery-fire-hazard...). I'm a huge pedal assist e-bike fan and I use my e-bike all the time around NYC. Throttle based e-bikes used to be technically illegal in NYC until 2020 (pedal assist were not), which is what all the delivery workers still continue to use. (https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml). Do you have a citation that they continue to confiscate e-bikes?
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  You're not listening. NYFD calls ALL "mobility device" fires "ebike fires." You can quote articles all you like - they're all based off NYFD's lies.

ericyd 2y ago

TIL "hateboners" is a word

doctorpangloss 2y ago

Yeah but why? Why hassle these guys so much? The delivery bikers take cars off the streets, they are serving people who are willingly paying, and an e-bike is less likely to kill a pedestrian. From the POV of fire and police, it’s much harder to commit crimes on e-bikes, and in absolute numbers I’m confident the fire department responds more frequently to incidents with cars. It seems like a win win for everyone in the community. I understand why it’s a culture war. It violates beliefs. But is there truly any rational basis? I understand the aesthetics of a delivery biker violating a traffic law for cars looks bad, that it pisses people off. But brother… it’s an urban environment: it’s going to be chock full of shit that pisses you off. Why this?

WillAdams 2y ago

If that's the case, why was at least one such ebike battery the subject of a CPSC recall? https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/E-Bikes-Recalled-Due-to-Fire-Explosion-and-Burn-Hazards-Distributed-by-Ancheer https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2023/E-Bikes-Recalled-Due-to-Fi... from: https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-batteries-delivery-workers/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-... There definitely needs to be better regulation/inspection: https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/us/nyc-ebike-store-fire-lithium-ion-batteries/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/us/nyc-ebike-store-fire-lithi... but agree that a more even-handed approach to repair is warranted: https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-by-lithium-ion-batteries-in-two-months-than-in-all-of-2019-fdny-chief/ https://nypost.com/2024/03/03/us-news/more-nyc-fires-caused-... and I'd be glad to be pointed to articles from independent sources which are impartial. The Manhattan apartment building my son lives in suffered such a fire --- fortunately my son and his dog made it out safely, and his unit only had smoke damage, but he was out of his apartment for months of moving from one motel room to another every 30 days once his insurance kicked in. That said, folks need to be more respectful of and careful with batteries in general --- my brother-in-law's home was damaged by a fire caused by a digital camera battery over a decade ago.

throwaway38211 2y ago

Regarding your second point, your own source says that none of the five fires -over a two day period- were not ebike fires. You’re making it sound like no ebike has ever caught fire at all. “none of the New York fires occurring April 20 and 21 involved an e-bike“ That article also says “Now, some fires certainly originate with e-bike batteries and some e-scooter batteries are probably safe.” To your first point, there absolutely are unsafe charging practices, such as charging immediately after coming in from the cold without letting the battery warm up, which is one reason why these fires occur most often in winter. I’m very pro ebike, but can’t just act like they don’t have these issues…

jeffbee 2y ago
> charging immediately after coming in from the cold Why should this be any concern of the end user? The BMS is supposed to manage that condition.

relyks 2y ago

This is not true. The article you linked only mentioned one particular instance that the battery fire was not the result of a e-bike battery. There have been fires due to bad e-bike batteries (see https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-batteries-delivery-workers/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/11/21/ebikes-fires-lithium-ion-..., and https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/01/31/ebike-battery-fire-hazards-fdny/ https://www.thecity.nyc/2024/01/31/ebike-battery-fire-hazard...). I'm a huge pedal assist e-bike fan and I use my e-bike all the time around NYC. Throttle based e-bikes used to be technically illegal in NYC until 2020 (pedal assist were not), which is what all the delivery workers still continue to use. (https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/ebikes.shtml). Do you have a citation that they continue to confiscate e-bikes?

KennyBlanken 2y ago
You're not listening. NYFD calls ALL "mobility device" fires "ebike fires." You can quote articles all you like - they're all based off NYFD's lies.