3 ms·

> The plane appears to have hit a concrete wall, according to the photos. Can anybody point out why there is a concrete wall at the end of the runway?

denysvitali 2y ago
By looking at the streetview image [1], and assuming this is the correct concrete wall they hit, my best guess is that this is just the "fencing" around the airport. Letting an airplane run past the wall would have meant allowing an airplane to cross a few streets past the end of the runway. It would be nice to know what are the regulations around this topic though, having a concrete wall at the end of a runway can definitely be fatal (as we've seen here) [1]: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFx9u1AE1kZhM9iW8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFx9u1AE1kZhM9iW8
- SteveNuts 2y ago
  Seems like a matter of “fatal for the airplane passengers” vs. “fatal for the airplane passengers plus motorists”
  - kijin 2y ago
    Could be worse. There was an accident in Brazil a while ago in which a runaway plane almost hit a gas station.
    - zetalyrae 2y ago
      This happened in Argentina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAPA_Flight_3142 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAPA_Flight_3142
- do_not_redeem 2y ago
  It looks like a trolley problem to me sadly. If that wall wasn't there, the plane would have kept skidding (from the looks of that picture) downhill into traffic for who knows how long. Planes have a lot of inertia. And those look like power lines just past that wall too; those would not help the situation either.
- neom 2y ago
  I was curious so I went and looked at what other airports do, yyz, jfk, icn, lhr are all chainlink, some areas of yyz if you over-ran and went through he chainlink, it looks like surely you'd be on a road considerably bigger than the one at Muan.
- buildsjets 2y ago
  Here’s a better streetview link. You can see the dirt berm that the aircraft hit is located far inside the perimeter wall. Also the wall is pretty dang thin and would not have stopped a 737 like that. https://maps.app.goo.gl/NHh9eDtAGGtZY9fH7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/NHh9eDtAGGtZY9fH7
  - buildsjets 2y ago
    New pics in the media seem to show most of the wreckage came to a stop between the dirt berm and the perimeter concrete wall. At least one of the engines looks like it reached and penetrated the wall.
- drtgh 2y ago
  If the video we all are seeing is from this accident, then it is not the fencing around the airport. It is some kind of mound, apparently hardened earth with antennas from the instrument landing system on it ( the fence seems to be further back ).
buildsjets 2y ago
There isn’t one. There is a dip, and then a marshy area, and then there is a soil berm that supports the runway lighting system which is at the same height as the runway surface. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1108904845802471515/1322738259578720349/4Nkaebd.png?ex=6771f780&is=6770a600&hm=2ca5075b1d05f7d1106139a33be5294fc4317530d5d25a147e32772a897d04d6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1108904845802471515... I’d like to know if his runway had an EMAS system, and if EMAS is effective against an aircraft without the landing gear down. In satellite photos, both ends of the runway are marked with yellow chevrons, which indicates that the surface is not supposed to be taxiied on, and it has a blocky/pixelated coloring which is typical of EMAS but I cant find an airport facility directory that covers MXW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_...
- Animats 2y ago
  Runway info: [1]. No mention of EMAS. There are chevrons at each end, but EMAS markings are not yet standardized internationally, which ops.group complains about. At that speed, with gear up, and possibly still under power, EMAS might not help much. Unclear from the video. Expect more solid info tomorrow. [1] http://aim.koca.go.kr/eaipPub/Package/2015-01-07-AIRAC/html/eAIP/KR-AD-2.RKJB-en-GB.html http://aim.koca.go.kr/eaipPub/Package/2015-01-07-AIRAC/html/...
- whycome 2y ago
  All media seems to say that it is indeed made of concrete. Perhaps covered in soil?
- ranger207 2y ago
  FYI the Discord image link will expire after a few hours. If you could link the original source or reupload the image onto another image host such as Imgur, that'd be nice for people reading the thread later
  - buildsjets 2y ago
    So let it be written, so let it be done. Sorry, too late to edit my original post, and the original was a webp that imgur won’t take so I had to screenshot it. https://imgur.com/a/nu3wSZJ https://imgur.com/a/nu3wSZJ
paxys 2y ago
Better for planes to hit a concrete wall than take out a neighborhood downstream from the runway.
- blitzar 2y ago
  Unfotunately the neighbourhood downstream from the runway is a field followed closely by a body of water.
hipadev23 2y ago
Because it's the start of the runway, not the end.

denysvitali 2y ago

By looking at the streetview image [1], and assuming this is the correct concrete wall they hit, my best guess is that this is just the "fencing" around the airport. Letting an airplane run past the wall would have meant allowing an airplane to cross a few streets past the end of the runway. It would be nice to know what are the regulations around this topic though, having a concrete wall at the end of a runway can definitely be fatal (as we've seen here) [1]: https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFx9u1AE1kZhM9iW8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/yFx9u1AE1kZhM9iW8

SteveNuts 2y ago
Seems like a matter of “fatal for the airplane passengers” vs. “fatal for the airplane passengers plus motorists”
- kijin 2y ago
  Could be worse. There was an accident in Brazil a while ago in which a runaway plane almost hit a gas station.
  - zetalyrae 2y ago
    This happened in Argentina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAPA_Flight_3142 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LAPA_Flight_3142
do_not_redeem 2y ago
It looks like a trolley problem to me sadly. If that wall wasn't there, the plane would have kept skidding (from the looks of that picture) downhill into traffic for who knows how long. Planes have a lot of inertia. And those look like power lines just past that wall too; those would not help the situation either.
neom 2y ago
I was curious so I went and looked at what other airports do, yyz, jfk, icn, lhr are all chainlink, some areas of yyz if you over-ran and went through he chainlink, it looks like surely you'd be on a road considerably bigger than the one at Muan.
buildsjets 2y ago
Here’s a better streetview link. You can see the dirt berm that the aircraft hit is located far inside the perimeter wall. Also the wall is pretty dang thin and would not have stopped a 737 like that. https://maps.app.goo.gl/NHh9eDtAGGtZY9fH7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/NHh9eDtAGGtZY9fH7
- buildsjets 2y ago
  New pics in the media seem to show most of the wreckage came to a stop between the dirt berm and the perimeter concrete wall. At least one of the engines looks like it reached and penetrated the wall.
drtgh 2y ago
If the video we all are seeing is from this accident, then it is not the fencing around the airport. It is some kind of mound, apparently hardened earth with antennas from the instrument landing system on it ( the fence seems to be further back ).

buildsjets 2y ago

There isn’t one. There is a dip, and then a marshy area, and then there is a soil berm that supports the runway lighting system which is at the same height as the runway surface. https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1108904845802471515/1322738259578720349/4Nkaebd.png?ex=6771f780&is=6770a600&hm=2ca5075b1d05f7d1106139a33be5294fc4317530d5d25a147e32772a897d04d6&=&format=webp&quality=lossless https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1108904845802471515... I’d like to know if his runway had an EMAS system, and if EMAS is effective against an aircraft without the landing gear down. In satellite photos, both ends of the runway are marked with yellow chevrons, which indicates that the surface is not supposed to be taxiied on, and it has a blocky/pixelated coloring which is typical of EMAS but I cant find an airport facility directory that covers MXW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_...

Animats 2y ago
Runway info: [1]. No mention of EMAS. There are chevrons at each end, but EMAS markings are not yet standardized internationally, which ops.group complains about. At that speed, with gear up, and possibly still under power, EMAS might not help much. Unclear from the video. Expect more solid info tomorrow. [1] http://aim.koca.go.kr/eaipPub/Package/2015-01-07-AIRAC/html/eAIP/KR-AD-2.RKJB-en-GB.html http://aim.koca.go.kr/eaipPub/Package/2015-01-07-AIRAC/html/...
whycome 2y ago
All media seems to say that it is indeed made of concrete. Perhaps covered in soil?
ranger207 2y ago
FYI the Discord image link will expire after a few hours. If you could link the original source or reupload the image onto another image host such as Imgur, that'd be nice for people reading the thread later
- buildsjets 2y ago
  So let it be written, so let it be done. Sorry, too late to edit my original post, and the original was a webp that imgur won’t take so I had to screenshot it. https://imgur.com/a/nu3wSZJ https://imgur.com/a/nu3wSZJ

paxys 2y ago

Better for planes to hit a concrete wall than take out a neighborhood downstream from the runway.

blitzar 2y ago
Unfotunately the neighbourhood downstream from the runway is a field followed closely by a body of water.

hipadev23 2y ago

Because it's the start of the runway, not the end.