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Companies such as Google and Apple say they need immigrants because there aren't enough qualified workers in the US. Opponents say immigrants are depressing wag

Companies such as Google and Apple say they need immigrants because there aren't enough qualified workers in the US. Opponents say immigrants are depressing wages; these companies are only importing these workers in order to depress wages! Let's see who is telling the truth. Back in 1990s, a decent salary for a fresh graduate, at a top company like Sun Microsystems was $40,000. RSUs were unknown back then, and certainly fresh graduates didn't get any! If you adjust for inflation $40K in 1990 translates to $99K in 2024. Today a fresh graduate can get a $120K offer at a top company, and another $10K to $50K in RSUs. Do you see any evidence of wage depression? It does look like these tech companies are NOT importing workers to depress wages!

xpl 2y ago
This argument doesn't hold because you don't know how much an average American SWE would be making today if there were no H1Bs — it could be $200k. > because there aren't enough qualified workers in the US It's often not a shortage of skills but a shortage of pay. Companies can also invest in growing local talent. There are tons of STEM graduates who cannot find jobs — because why hire a junior when there's a supply of Indian H-1B labor from shady consultancies, who won't complain or negotiate due to the constant threat of deportation? What needs to be done is to end the exploitative aspect of H1B visas. Recipients should have a direct, unconditional pathway to residency, independent of their employer's goodwill. It shouldn't be a modern slavery. Also, stop immigration fraud to prevent these visas from being used solely for cost-cutting and replacing local labor. Raise the minimum wage for H1B, introduce additional taxes — or just auction visas off, granting them to the highest bidder. So only the top talent would get them.
- breadwinner 2y ago
  If the wages are rising that means demand is greater than supply. Tech companies are telling the truth when they say there is a shortage of workers.
  - greentxt 2y ago
    No. Wages can rise without change in demand. You should let smarter people comment.
  - xpl 2y ago
    Yes, and you can fulfill this growing demand by raising wages, which is essentially the market mechanism to bring in additional supply. Another way to address this is by importing cheaper labor from abroad. For American workers, it is better to let wages rise than to import foreign labor (which would ultimately suppress wage growth). Therefore, importing labor does suppress wages — as you've essentially demonstrated yourself.
    - grrrrrrreat 2y ago
      there is another option the companies can choose to use. Export the jobs.aka offshoring. Tons of companies do this now, not sure if its super productive, but it seems to be a viable alternative for companies to use/abuse. End result is the same. Lower job profiles/ lower salaries / lower job openings. Raising wages is probably the last option on the checklist.
    - breadwinner 2y ago
      Indeed they raised the wages, and yet supply didn't keep up, and that's the reason for H-1B.
      - xpl 2y ago
        Looking at discussions about the current dire state of the white-collar job market — with thousands of applications per job posting and many months of job hunting, even for individuals with over 10 years of experience — it's hard to argue that we're not currently oversupplied. Perhaps it's time to reconsider the "supply" side of the equation and do something with H1B.
        breadwinner 2y ago
        I agree that there is currently a problem in the job market. It would make sense to temporarily pause the H-1B program for candidates with only a bachelor's degree. It should still be open for those with masters and PhD degrees.

xpl 2y ago

This argument doesn't hold because you don't know how much an average American SWE would be making today if there were no H1Bs — it could be $200k. > because there aren't enough qualified workers in the US It's often not a shortage of skills but a shortage of pay. Companies can also invest in growing local talent. There are tons of STEM graduates who cannot find jobs — because why hire a junior when there's a supply of Indian H-1B labor from shady consultancies, who won't complain or negotiate due to the constant threat of deportation? What needs to be done is to end the exploitative aspect of H1B visas. Recipients should have a direct, unconditional pathway to residency, independent of their employer's goodwill. It shouldn't be a modern slavery. Also, stop immigration fraud to prevent these visas from being used solely for cost-cutting and replacing local labor. Raise the minimum wage for H1B, introduce additional taxes — or just auction visas off, granting them to the highest bidder. So only the top talent would get them.

breadwinner 2y ago
If the wages are rising that means demand is greater than supply. Tech companies are telling the truth when they say there is a shortage of workers.
- greentxt 2y ago
  No. Wages can rise without change in demand. You should let smarter people comment.
- xpl 2y ago
  Yes, and you can fulfill this growing demand by raising wages, which is essentially the market mechanism to bring in additional supply. Another way to address this is by importing cheaper labor from abroad. For American workers, it is better to let wages rise than to import foreign labor (which would ultimately suppress wage growth). Therefore, importing labor does suppress wages — as you've essentially demonstrated yourself.
  - grrrrrrreat 2y ago
    there is another option the companies can choose to use. Export the jobs.aka offshoring. Tons of companies do this now, not sure if its super productive, but it seems to be a viable alternative for companies to use/abuse. End result is the same. Lower job profiles/ lower salaries / lower job openings. Raising wages is probably the last option on the checklist.
  - breadwinner 2y ago
    Indeed they raised the wages, and yet supply didn't keep up, and that's the reason for H-1B.
    - xpl 2y ago
      Looking at discussions about the current dire state of the white-collar job market — with thousands of applications per job posting and many months of job hunting, even for individuals with over 10 years of experience — it's hard to argue that we're not currently oversupplied. Perhaps it's time to reconsider the "supply" side of the equation and do something with H1B.
      - breadwinner 2y ago
        I agree that there is currently a problem in the job market. It would make sense to temporarily pause the H-1B program for candidates with only a bachelor's degree. It should still be open for those with masters and PhD degrees.