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EU regulations requiring portable batteries to be removable/replaceable by the end-user take effect February 18, 2027.

maeil 2y ago
I'll believe it when I see it. With the way the EU has been going, good chance it will get shelved before it goes into effect.
- Kbelicius 2y ago
  What other rules have been shelved after the date of it coming to effect have been announced?
Someone 2y ago
That is not 100% correct. The wording (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti..., page 55) is “portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by end users or by independent operators”
- alkonaut 2y ago
  That’s not very clear. How easy is ”readily”? I replaced a few and found the biggest obstacle being the glue they use to keep them in place inside (they must sit in compartments larger than the battery since it changes size). But would it be enough to not have glue and instead Velcro there? Would still require plugging and unplugging tiny cables and screwing out 20 tiny screws. Or does ”readily” mean ”hatch”? Not so sure people want hatches…
whitehexagon 2y ago
Standardized and widely available batteries would also be a huge step forward. Like the old nokia phone batteries that you could pick up anywhere. Recently I started buying gadgets that have 18650 batteries, seems about the only standard around, but trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge. I even tried a couple European Amzn stores, but they only seem to have third party suppliers. It put me off from buying the MNT Reform even though I love the concept. And the 18650 USB torch I bought has some stupid propriety magnetic connector on one end, so I'd say any such legislation should include both ends of these charger cables.
- seba_dos1 2y ago
  > trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge Huh? I had no trouble getting 18650 batteries in the EU. They're everywhere, both protected and unprotected cells; lots of brands to choose from, including cheap unbranded ones. You can even get ones with built-in USB-C socket for charging.
Dalewyn 2y ago
I'm going to assume something got lost in this game of telephone because this otherwise sounds like an oxymoron: Of course a "portable" battery would be removable and replacable.
- edflsafoiewq 2y ago
  The battery in my phone is portable (I carry it around) but not removable without specialized tools. It's REGULATION (EU) 2023/1542 if you want to read it. > ‘portable battery’ means a battery that is sealed, weighs 5 kg or less, is not designed specifically for industrial use and is neither an electric vehicle battery, an LMT battery, nor an SLI battery > [...] > A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    I think I see where I got tripped up. Essentially, they're saying all batteries in portable electronics will be portable by 2027 and defined as so-and-so; not that batteries today are portable and will be made compliant as defined so-and-so. Because I think we can all agree: The battery on an ICOM walkie-talkie is portable, the battery in an Apple iPhone is not portable.
    - mark-r 2y ago
      No, we cannot all agree. I think your definition of "portable" is not compatible with most people's. You seem to be conflating portable and removable; those are two different properties that do not have to coexist. If the battery in your iPhone was not portable, you would not be able to move your iPhone.
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        Given no further context, when I hear "portable battery" I think of a battery that is portable in itself. An iPhone is portable, but the battery embedded in it isn't. Contrast the battery pack that something like an ICOM walkie talkie would have, which is portable in itself. Other ways to see it: An Electron program is portable, a .exe program is not portable; they are both programs. A stick of RAM is portable, soldered RAM on a motherboard or in a CPU is not portable; they are both RAM.
smarkov 2y ago
Huh, I've heard about this for a while but for some reason thought it was strictly regarding phones, maybe because they've been making the biggest headlines about it. Looking forward to it then.
Reason077 2y ago
Apple have already been taking steps to comply with this, with new “electrically-induced adhesive debonding” glue used to secure the iPhone 16 battery, instead of the problematic "stretch to remove" adhesive strips. Apparantely this makes it significantly easier to change the battery compared to previous models: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-batteries-easier-to-replace/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-b...

I'll believe it when I see it. With the way the EU has been going, good chance it will get shelved before it goes into effect.

Kbelicius 2y ago
What other rules have been shelved after the date of it coming to effect have been announced?

Someone 2y ago

That is not 100% correct. The wording (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti..., page 55) is “portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by end users or by independent operators”

alkonaut 2y ago
That’s not very clear. How easy is ”readily”? I replaced a few and found the biggest obstacle being the glue they use to keep them in place inside (they must sit in compartments larger than the battery since it changes size). But would it be enough to not have glue and instead Velcro there? Would still require plugging and unplugging tiny cables and screwing out 20 tiny screws. Or does ”readily” mean ”hatch”? Not so sure people want hatches…

whitehexagon 2y ago

Standardized and widely available batteries would also be a huge step forward. Like the old nokia phone batteries that you could pick up anywhere. Recently I started buying gadgets that have 18650 batteries, seems about the only standard around, but trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge. I even tried a couple European Amzn stores, but they only seem to have third party suppliers. It put me off from buying the MNT Reform even though I love the concept. And the 18650 USB torch I bought has some stupid propriety magnetic connector on one end, so I'd say any such legislation should include both ends of these charger cables.

seba_dos1 2y ago
> trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge Huh? I had no trouble getting 18650 batteries in the EU. They're everywhere, both protected and unprotected cells; lots of brands to choose from, including cheap unbranded ones. You can even get ones with built-in USB-C socket for charging.

Dalewyn 2y ago

I'm going to assume something got lost in this game of telephone because this otherwise sounds like an oxymoron: Of course a "portable" battery would be removable and replacable.

edflsafoiewq 2y ago
The battery in my phone is portable (I carry it around) but not removable without specialized tools. It's REGULATION (EU) 2023/1542 if you want to read it. > ‘portable battery’ means a battery that is sealed, weighs 5 kg or less, is not designed specifically for industrial use and is neither an electric vehicle battery, an LMT battery, nor an SLI battery > [...] > A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  I think I see where I got tripped up. Essentially, they're saying all batteries in portable electronics will be portable by 2027 and defined as so-and-so; not that batteries today are portable and will be made compliant as defined so-and-so. Because I think we can all agree: The battery on an ICOM walkie-talkie is portable, the battery in an Apple iPhone is not portable.
  - mark-r 2y ago
    No, we cannot all agree. I think your definition of "portable" is not compatible with most people's. You seem to be conflating portable and removable; those are two different properties that do not have to coexist. If the battery in your iPhone was not portable, you would not be able to move your iPhone.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      Given no further context, when I hear "portable battery" I think of a battery that is portable in itself. An iPhone is portable, but the battery embedded in it isn't. Contrast the battery pack that something like an ICOM walkie talkie would have, which is portable in itself. Other ways to see it: An Electron program is portable, a .exe program is not portable; they are both programs. A stick of RAM is portable, soldered RAM on a motherboard or in a CPU is not portable; they are both RAM.

smarkov 2y ago

Huh, I've heard about this for a while but for some reason thought it was strictly regarding phones, maybe because they've been making the biggest headlines about it. Looking forward to it then.

Reason077 2y ago

Apple have already been taking steps to comply with this, with new “electrically-induced adhesive debonding” glue used to secure the iPhone 16 battery, instead of the problematic "stretch to remove" adhesive strips. Apparantely this makes it significantly easier to change the battery compared to previous models: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-batteries-easier-to-replace/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-b...