5 ms·

Here are the folks who contributed to the "Attention is all you need" paper [1] which changed the world as we know it, and the countries they came from. I rest

Here are the folks who contributed to the "Attention is all you need" paper [1] which changed the world as we know it, and the countries they came from. I rest my case. Ashish Vaswani: India Noam Shazeer: USA Niki Parmar: India Jakob Uszkoreit: Germany Llion Jones: USA Aidan Gomez: British Canadian Lukasz Kaiser: Poland Illia Polosukhin: Ukraine [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762 https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gregw2 2y ago
They are all able to get O-1 visas for having extraordinary merit. (It may be true some get them via lying as with anything.) Elon came in on an F visa, Trump hired maids via H-2. If the conversation is about H-1B, a list of names is not enough for an argument. There probably should be some level of difficulty between H-1B and O-1 in my view.
bdangubic 2y ago
“rest your case” is too funny… this is 8 people, what about 63,992 other yearly recipients of this visa? what an compeling argument you are making (and this is former H1B-er writing here…)
- more_corn 2y ago
  The point is that major contributions to American tech supremacy come from foreigners. Scrapping the H1B program would jeopardize us tech leadership. Those other 64k people contribute as well. If you want to argue the other side (I don’t know why you would) feel free.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    how would you know whether or not american tech supremacy would not be the same without foreigners? of course you wouldn’t so this is silly line of argument :) the main reason for american tech supremacy is american military budget. and also that is next 876 reasons. H1B program won’t crack top-1000
    - ritcgab 2y ago
      > how would you know whether or not american tech supremacy would not be the same without foreigners? We don't know, but we can't afford losing the supremacy.
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        as long as the “defense” budget is 89.76 trillion dollars we cool, H1B or not…
like_any_other 2y ago
"Some foreigners are smarter than you, therefore you don't get to have a country, just an economic zone." - interesting case, let's see how many go along with it.
- breadwinner 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    america IS the country of immigrants (everyone except native americans…)
    - fuzztester 2y ago
      i read somewhere as a kid that they too came across the bering strait ... see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_Unit... which leads to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Am... which leads to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_the_Americas
- more_corn 2y ago
  H1B is not about smarter foreigners it’s about “I can’t find enough locals with the particular skills I need so I need to widen the pool” Though I think Musk likes it because the current program is tied to the company so workers are effectively indentured to the sponsoring company and not free to leave to go work for another.
energy123 2y ago
I'm dumbfounded that some people think high-skilled immigration is negative sum. It is so glaringly positive sum. Another country invested 20 years to train a 130 IQ person from birth to tertiary educated. And then the US gets to skim the top 0.1% off that expensive process without paying a dime. These immigrants then generate consumption, scientific discoveries and found companies in their prime working years, which boosts the local country's power, economy, job opportunities and prosperity. They take 1 job but create 2, but the 2 is hidden behind layers of indirection (scientific discoveries, consumption, etc) so dumb people can't see the positive sum reality for what it is. Anti-immigrant sentiment is a profound misunderstanding of the global value that these immigrants create, even if they locally compete for a specific job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy There's a reason Eastern Europe and East Asia are struggling. There's a reason China and South Korea have probably peaked. There's a reason Hungary will continue to be a shit place to live. It isn't because of too much immigration. It's because of too little. The US, since its founding, has been a country of immigrants. It's a necessary condition behind its prosperity and strength.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  there is a huge difference between being “anti-immigration” and critiquing H1B program which is what we are doing here… a very very huge difference :) I am an immigrant so 1,000,000% not anti-immigration, everyone around me besides native americans is also an immigrant. I am also former H1B-er. the program is deeply flawed and is used for exploitation more than anything else
  - energy123 2y ago
    There is not such a big difference in the median critique. There are scarce voices -- perhaps yours -- saying we should reform H1B to make it easier for immigrants to change jobs or obtain passports or acquire the visa in the first place, which Vivek has been very clear on from the beginning that this is his intention. But the large majority of voices on social media are using this as an opportunity to sling broadly anti-immigration and nativist catchphrases, framing the H1B as a zero sum contest between the immigrant and the local. It's factually the opposite of the truth. Even if H1B doesn't get any reforms, it's better than nothing for both the immigrant and the US, but that would not be the impression you would get from the avalanche of people committed to the Lump of Labor fallacy.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

gregw2 2y ago

They are all able to get O-1 visas for having extraordinary merit. (It may be true some get them via lying as with anything.) Elon came in on an F visa, Trump hired maids via H-2. If the conversation is about H-1B, a list of names is not enough for an argument. There probably should be some level of difficulty between H-1B and O-1 in my view.

bdangubic 2y ago

“rest your case” is too funny… this is 8 people, what about 63,992 other yearly recipients of this visa? what an compeling argument you are making (and this is former H1B-er writing here…)

more_corn 2y ago
The point is that major contributions to American tech supremacy come from foreigners. Scrapping the H1B program would jeopardize us tech leadership. Those other 64k people contribute as well. If you want to argue the other side (I don’t know why you would) feel free.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  how would you know whether or not american tech supremacy would not be the same without foreigners? of course you wouldn’t so this is silly line of argument :) the main reason for american tech supremacy is american military budget. and also that is next 876 reasons. H1B program won’t crack top-1000
  - ritcgab 2y ago
    > how would you know whether or not american tech supremacy would not be the same without foreigners? We don't know, but we can't afford losing the supremacy.
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      as long as the “defense” budget is 89.76 trillion dollars we cool, H1B or not…

like_any_other 2y ago

"Some foreigners are smarter than you, therefore you don't get to have a country, just an economic zone." - interesting case, let's see how many go along with it.

breadwinner 2y ago
[flagged]
- bdangubic 2y ago
  america IS the country of immigrants (everyone except native americans…)
  - fuzztester 2y ago
    i read somewhere as a kid that they too came across the bering strait ... see: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_Unit... which leads to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Am... which leads to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_the_Americas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_the_Americas
more_corn 2y ago
H1B is not about smarter foreigners it’s about “I can’t find enough locals with the particular skills I need so I need to widen the pool” Though I think Musk likes it because the current program is tied to the company so workers are effectively indentured to the sponsoring company and not free to leave to go work for another.

energy123 2y ago

I'm dumbfounded that some people think high-skilled immigration is negative sum. It is so glaringly positive sum. Another country invested 20 years to train a 130 IQ person from birth to tertiary educated. And then the US gets to skim the top 0.1% off that expensive process without paying a dime. These immigrants then generate consumption, scientific discoveries and found companies in their prime working years, which boosts the local country's power, economy, job opportunities and prosperity. They take 1 job but create 2, but the 2 is hidden behind layers of indirection (scientific discoveries, consumption, etc) so dumb people can't see the positive sum reality for what it is. Anti-immigrant sentiment is a profound misunderstanding of the global value that these immigrants create, even if they locally compete for a specific job. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy There's a reason Eastern Europe and East Asia are struggling. There's a reason China and South Korea have probably peaked. There's a reason Hungary will continue to be a shit place to live. It isn't because of too much immigration. It's because of too little. The US, since its founding, has been a country of immigrants. It's a necessary condition behind its prosperity and strength.

bdangubic 2y ago
there is a huge difference between being “anti-immigration” and critiquing H1B program which is what we are doing here… a very very huge difference :) I am an immigrant so 1,000,000% not anti-immigration, everyone around me besides native americans is also an immigrant. I am also former H1B-er. the program is deeply flawed and is used for exploitation more than anything else
- energy123 2y ago
  There is not such a big difference in the median critique. There are scarce voices -- perhaps yours -- saying we should reform H1B to make it easier for immigrants to change jobs or obtain passports or acquire the visa in the first place, which Vivek has been very clear on from the beginning that this is his intention. But the large majority of voices on social media are using this as an opportunity to sling broadly anti-immigration and nativist catchphrases, framing the H1B as a zero sum contest between the immigrant and the local. It's factually the opposite of the truth. Even if H1B doesn't get any reforms, it's better than nothing for both the immigrant and the US, but that would not be the impression you would get from the avalanche of people committed to the Lump of Labor fallacy.