4 ms·

Sure, but if we follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion, we must move to a cabin in the woods, 100 miles from the nearest civilization, growing o

Sure, but if we follow that line of thinking to its logical conclusion, we must move to a cabin in the woods, 100 miles from the nearest civilization, growing our own food and never connecting our computing devices to anything resembling a network.

ketralnis 2y ago
No? You can have a photos app that doesn't phone home while not having to move to a cabin in the woods. See: every photos app that doesn't phone home, and I currently don't live in a cabin in the woods.
eptcyka 2y ago
It is a spectrum, and I'd love to be able to draw my own line. I have my own photo storage solution. I do not need Apple's.
- dialup_sounds 2y ago
  This entire post is about a setting in Apple's Photos app.
codys 2y ago
It's not charitable to construct a contrived situation no one is talking about and place that into the mouth of a commenter.
nimih 2y ago
I've read the post you're responding to like 3 times, and after pondering it deeply, I'm pretty sure the conclusion of their line of thinking pretty definitively stops at "Apple should not be sending data off the device without the user requesting it." If you think otherwise, you should maybe provide more of an argument.
- nmilo 2y ago
  The line of thinking is right there: "not sending any info to anyone else anywhere at any time" There are way more egregious privacy concerns than sending non-reversibly encrypted noisy photos to Apple. Why draw the line here and not the far worse things happening on your phone and computer right now?
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    Demanding consistency of the human psyche is a fool's errand.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Because the conclusion is not workable. Almost every single app today interacts with the network in some way. You would be constantly annoying the user with prompt after prompt if you wanted to get consent for sending any relatively harmless data off the device.
  - rkagerer 2y ago
    It's telling that Android, for example, has all sorts of granular permissions you can set for an app, but "Network Access" is not one of them. My Calculator app does not need to call home. A good portion of the apps I use fall into this category, and a straightforward mechanism to opt them out of access would be welcome.
    - botanical76 2y ago
      FWIW, a "Network Access" app permission is one of the features that GrapheneOS provides. It is only setting offered to the user every single app install. It should be in base AOSP, and I have to wonder why it isn't already.
  - LtWorf 2y ago
    Ah the GDPR complaint. Just don't collect the data and you won't be annoying anyone!
- nicce 2y ago
  It is probably reasonable for average end-user to expect that landmark based search works without enabling the extra setting. They have option to disble if they care.
  - z3phyr 2y ago
    The initiative is for the user to command their computer to communicate or not with the information of their choosing. "Computer, I command thee to send this and only this information over the channel of my choosing, using following encryption scheme, for here be my seal of approval for anyone who might want to verify, and here be the key" "Sicut Vult"
    - nicce 2y ago
      I understand the enthusiasm but from the business perspective it does not matter. Many businesses would fail if they go too deep on this. Their only audience would be people who are experts in the area. Other people are confused and disappointed since things are not working as they expect. On Apple's scale, most people care about the things they can do, not about how it happens. For that reason, default matters when the option is only about the internal process pipeline and privacy. As a result, it is enough to showcase that in case some expert investigates the matter, they show that privacy is considered in a reasonable level. Maybe some day in the future these things are common knowledge, but I fear that the knowledge gap just increases.
satvikpendem 2y ago
Slippery slope fallacy. Nothing you said derives from not wanting to send information to remote servers, it's a false dichotomy.
ab_testing 2y ago
Or just use Linux where no component phones home.
- parasubvert 2y ago
  Plenty of Linux distributions phone home, in some way, by default.
  - LtWorf 2y ago
    They send user data? Source? Debian has popcon, which must be enabled explicitly and that is it. It sends the list of the installed packages.

ketralnis 2y ago

No? You can have a photos app that doesn't phone home while not having to move to a cabin in the woods. See: every photos app that doesn't phone home, and I currently don't live in a cabin in the woods.

eptcyka 2y ago

It is a spectrum, and I'd love to be able to draw my own line. I have my own photo storage solution. I do not need Apple's.

dialup_sounds 2y ago
This entire post is about a setting in Apple's Photos app.

codys 2y ago

It's not charitable to construct a contrived situation no one is talking about and place that into the mouth of a commenter.

nimih 2y ago

I've read the post you're responding to like 3 times, and after pondering it deeply, I'm pretty sure the conclusion of their line of thinking pretty definitively stops at "Apple should not be sending data off the device without the user requesting it." If you think otherwise, you should maybe provide more of an argument.

nmilo 2y ago
The line of thinking is right there: "not sending any info to anyone else anywhere at any time" There are way more egregious privacy concerns than sending non-reversibly encrypted noisy photos to Apple. Why draw the line here and not the far worse things happening on your phone and computer right now?
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  Demanding consistency of the human psyche is a fool's errand.
threeseed 2y ago
Because the conclusion is not workable. Almost every single app today interacts with the network in some way. You would be constantly annoying the user with prompt after prompt if you wanted to get consent for sending any relatively harmless data off the device.
- rkagerer 2y ago
  It's telling that Android, for example, has all sorts of granular permissions you can set for an app, but "Network Access" is not one of them. My Calculator app does not need to call home. A good portion of the apps I use fall into this category, and a straightforward mechanism to opt them out of access would be welcome.
  - botanical76 2y ago
    FWIW, a "Network Access" app permission is one of the features that GrapheneOS provides. It is only setting offered to the user every single app install. It should be in base AOSP, and I have to wonder why it isn't already.
- LtWorf 2y ago
  Ah the GDPR complaint. Just don't collect the data and you won't be annoying anyone!
nicce 2y ago
It is probably reasonable for average end-user to expect that landmark based search works without enabling the extra setting. They have option to disble if they care.
- z3phyr 2y ago
  The initiative is for the user to command their computer to communicate or not with the information of their choosing. "Computer, I command thee to send this and only this information over the channel of my choosing, using following encryption scheme, for here be my seal of approval for anyone who might want to verify, and here be the key" "Sicut Vult"
  - nicce 2y ago
    I understand the enthusiasm but from the business perspective it does not matter. Many businesses would fail if they go too deep on this. Their only audience would be people who are experts in the area. Other people are confused and disappointed since things are not working as they expect. On Apple's scale, most people care about the things they can do, not about how it happens. For that reason, default matters when the option is only about the internal process pipeline and privacy. As a result, it is enough to showcase that in case some expert investigates the matter, they show that privacy is considered in a reasonable level. Maybe some day in the future these things are common knowledge, but I fear that the knowledge gap just increases.

satvikpendem 2y ago

Slippery slope fallacy. Nothing you said derives from not wanting to send information to remote servers, it's a false dichotomy.

ab_testing 2y ago

Or just use Linux where no component phones home.

parasubvert 2y ago
Plenty of Linux distributions phone home, in some way, by default.
- LtWorf 2y ago
  They send user data? Source? Debian has popcon, which must be enabled explicitly and that is it. It sends the list of the installed packages.