4 ms·

> letting the feds see every time you use the product This does not happen.

Lammy 2y ago
Wrong. Anything that makes any network request is by definition a privacy leak. The network itself is always listening, and the act of making any connection says that you are using the computer, and where, and when.
- threeseed 2y ago
  And so in this context. You are saying that every network request is going to a target controlled by the US government.
  - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
    Yes, this is what I'm saying. Particularly among "controversial" product manufacturers. ---- Entirely unrelated: I recently visited my favorite hometown (Austin) museum, UT's Harry Ransom Center. Their P.E.N. exhibit has an exposé on how various mid-20th Century authors were in fact funded by The Ford Foundation (a known CIA "investment vehicle"), including Aldous Huxley (author of Brave New World). One of the exhibits features multiple author signatories adamently denying this CIA-funding, over the 1950's decade... ultimately this conspiracy theory ended up being true/revealed. Adds an entirely new dimension to The Savage's [BNW's main character] decision to hang himself.
  - Lammy 2y ago
    Or their friends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
    - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
      >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Why yes, I did happen to work in US data centers throughout the 2010's... including during Snowden's [then adamently-denied] revelations. "If you're taking flak, you're near the target."
- dangus 2y ago
  If every app and system is making network connections by default without the user's knowledge or intervention then it doesn't really prove that you are using the computer at all.
  - Lammy 2y ago
    Completely missing the point, but you're right that I should have said “using or in possession” of the computer. The point is that they reveal your physical location to the network, so if they make requests while not directly in use then it's actually even worse. For context, stationary desktop machines comprise single-digit percentages of Mac sales: https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/06/macbook-pro-and-macbook-air-overwhelmingly-drive-apple-mac-sales/ https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/06/macbook-pro-and-m... Every other product sold by Apple (Mac notebooks, iPhones, watches, etc) are designed to be carried around with you, happily beaconing your presence to every network and to every other Apple device that will listen. I have seen this with my own eyes where my M3 MBP showed up on my WiFi AP status page as soon as I got home even though it was supposedly “““asleep””” in my bag.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - dangus 2y ago
      Your Mac connected to your trusted home network when it want turned off? Wow, scandalous. You can randomize your MAC address. Built in OS feature.
      - dangus 2y ago
        “wasn’t turned off” is what I meant to say. What I mean is, an M3 MacBook has essentially the same processor as a cell phone. Of course it’s able to perform activities when the system is “asleep.” It even has specific online behavior labeled as a feature that can be turned on/off (Power Nap). https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-power-nap-on-or-off-mh40774/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-power-nap-on-o... This is behavior that is desired by Apple’s users. I sometimes wish that more Apple users who aren’t satisfied would stop complaining while continuing to throw money at Apple and buy themselves a Linux laptop. If you want a laptop with special features like a WiFi kill switch you should buy one of those, not buy a consumer appliance device that is marketed toward convenience-oriented home users.
fmajid 2y ago
Traffic analysis by the government totally happens: https://lifehacker.com/how-cia-director-david-petraeuss-emails-were-traced-an-5960080 https://lifehacker.com/how-cia-director-david-petraeuss-emai... Now they probably don't care about you personally, but you'd be surprised how many people are connected indirectly to a person of interest. Google "Maher Arar" for the horrific consequences of false positives.
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  >you'd be surprised how many people are connected indirectly to a person of interest. I get called "paranoid," often, but I'm being honest when responding to people requesting my phone number: "you don't want my number in your phone, because it'll associate you with people you probably don't want to be associated with" [see Five Eyes' 3-Degrees of Separation].

Wrong. Anything that makes any network request is by definition a privacy leak. The network itself is always listening, and the act of making any connection says that you are using the computer, and where, and when.

threeseed 2y ago
And so in this context. You are saying that every network request is going to a target controlled by the US government.
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  Yes, this is what I'm saying. Particularly among "controversial" product manufacturers. ---- Entirely unrelated: I recently visited my favorite hometown (Austin) museum, UT's Harry Ransom Center. Their P.E.N. exhibit has an exposé on how various mid-20th Century authors were in fact funded by The Ford Foundation (a known CIA "investment vehicle"), including Aldous Huxley (author of Brave New World). One of the exhibits features multiple author signatories adamently denying this CIA-funding, over the 1950's decade... ultimately this conspiracy theory ended up being true/revealed. Adds an entirely new dimension to The Savage's [BNW's main character] decision to hang himself.
- Lammy 2y ago
  Or their friends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
  - ProllyInfamous 2y ago
    >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Why yes, I did happen to work in US data centers throughout the 2010's... including during Snowden's [then adamently-denied] revelations. "If you're taking flak, you're near the target."
dangus 2y ago
If every app and system is making network connections by default without the user's knowledge or intervention then it doesn't really prove that you are using the computer at all.
- Lammy 2y ago
  Completely missing the point, but you're right that I should have said “using or in possession” of the computer. The point is that they reveal your physical location to the network, so if they make requests while not directly in use then it's actually even worse. For context, stationary desktop machines comprise single-digit percentages of Mac sales: https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/06/macbook-pro-and-macbook-air-overwhelmingly-drive-apple-mac-sales/ https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/03/06/macbook-pro-and-m... Every other product sold by Apple (Mac notebooks, iPhones, watches, etc) are designed to be carried around with you, happily beaconing your presence to every network and to every other Apple device that will listen. I have seen this with my own eyes where my M3 MBP showed up on my WiFi AP status page as soon as I got home even though it was supposedly “““asleep””” in my bag.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - dangus 2y ago
    Your Mac connected to your trusted home network when it want turned off? Wow, scandalous. You can randomize your MAC address. Built in OS feature.
    - dangus 2y ago
      “wasn’t turned off” is what I meant to say. What I mean is, an M3 MacBook has essentially the same processor as a cell phone. Of course it’s able to perform activities when the system is “asleep.” It even has specific online behavior labeled as a feature that can be turned on/off (Power Nap). https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-power-nap-on-or-off-mh40774/mac https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/turn-power-nap-on-o... This is behavior that is desired by Apple’s users. I sometimes wish that more Apple users who aren’t satisfied would stop complaining while continuing to throw money at Apple and buy themselves a Linux laptop. If you want a laptop with special features like a WiFi kill switch you should buy one of those, not buy a consumer appliance device that is marketed toward convenience-oriented home users.

fmajid 2y ago

Traffic analysis by the government totally happens: https://lifehacker.com/how-cia-director-david-petraeuss-emails-were-traced-an-5960080 https://lifehacker.com/how-cia-director-david-petraeuss-emai... Now they probably don't care about you personally, but you'd be surprised how many people are connected indirectly to a person of interest. Google "Maher Arar" for the horrific consequences of false positives.

ProllyInfamous 2y ago
>you'd be surprised how many people are connected indirectly to a person of interest. I get called "paranoid," often, but I'm being honest when responding to people requesting my phone number: "you don't want my number in your phone, because it'll associate you with people you probably don't want to be associated with" [see Five Eyes' 3-Degrees of Separation].